May 5, 2026

S3 E45 - The One Where Men Unlearn Misogyny

S3 E45 - The One Where Men Unlearn Misogyny
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Season 3

If you’ve ever wondered whether men can truly change, not just apologize but take real responsibility and put in the work, this episode is for you. We sat down with Lex, a psychotherapist who works closely with men as they confront and unlearn misogynistic patterns. Lex breaks down what accountability actually looks like, why defensiveness blocks growth, and what meaningful change requires over time. Plus, Peaches returns with an eye opening Peachin’ It Real segment.


🔥 IN THIS EPISODE

  • Lex shares about his own past struggles with some misogynistic thinking and how it led him to help other men unpack and challenge theirs
  • Using the tv show “Friends” and the idea of the ‘friendzone’ as a surprisingly relatable place to start looking for deeper patterns
  • What accountability looks like, including teachable moments
  • The everyday patterns we don’t always clock as misogyny, but absolutely are
  • The panels Lex runs on social media and how he creates space for men to have honest, often uncomfortable conversations.
  • The bigger question: how does real change happen?
  • A new ‘Peachin’ It Real’ segment digging into how men need to do better, and that they need to be having conversations with each other and not relying on women to carry the weight.
🍑 ‘PEACHIN’ IT REAL’ WITH PEACHES
Our incredible monthly segment host, Peaches, returns with episode two of Peachin’ It Real, sharing his perspective on why men need to do better and what speaking up actually can look like. He talks about how listening, self reflection, and consistency matter. Also, why are women the ones doing all the talking about this topic?


🔗 Where to Find Lex
LinkTree
TT


🔗 Where to Find Peaches
Just-Peaches
Links

Peaches also mentions the following website to check out during his segment:
My Voice,My Choice


🎵’Peachin’ It Real’ written and performed by: Jingle Crafters


🎙 WHO’S TALKING
Hosts: Kazza, Jules, Smudge
Guest: Lex, Psychotherapist
Peachin’ it Real Segment: Peaches


💬 THE BIG TAKEAWAY
Change isn’t about saying the right thing once. It’s about doing the work, consistently, and being willing to sit in discomfort long enough to grow. And all that work? It can’t fall on women.


[Oh Dear] [Ross and Rachel] [Unpacking Misogyny] [Predator and Prey] [Barber Shop] [ Peachin’ It Real] [Change]


🫶 Thank You to Our Sponsor: What Beti Made
Big love to Beti for creating amazing stickers. Beti also offers custom sticker designs, so you can bring your own ideas to life. And yes, there is an entire QuinnCast Podcast collection.
Website


💌 STAY CLOSE
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⭐️ IF THIS EPISODE DID SOMETHING FOR YOU
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WEBVTT

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listen out in today's episode for the newest installments of

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Peaching It Real. Hello, pretty ladies, all, look at you

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looking all beautiful. Smile at me. Why are you smiling?

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Why smile? Why do I have to smile?

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Because she looks so pretty? And women always should smile

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when you get compliments. Oh that's great.

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No it isn't, No, it isn't.

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Hello ladies.

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He it was good. That was very good. I got

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a little nervous for a second.

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Did I sound madly enough?

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Yes, the misogyny was oozing from you.

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And why did I come on like a misogynistic asshole?

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Okay, so we've all been there, the comment that makes

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you uncomfortable but you laughed off anyway, the dynamic at

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work that felt off but you couldn't quite name, the

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relationship pattern that you kept wondering, is it me, It's

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not you.

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And today we're going to talk about why we brought

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in Luks, an anti misogyny educator and psychotherapist who went

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on his own personal journey of recognizing and dismantling his

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own misogynistic who educates men online to unpack their misogyny

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and challenging stereotypes. He loves I'll think sports, energetic and socializing.

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Amazing. Great buyer.

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Cannot wait to talk to him. I have been following

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him on TikTok for quite some time now, and he's

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got his own podcast called xorts that's just coming where

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he is just in his first season and his tiktoks are.

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He will put up a screen behind him and on

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there will be some prompts for a discussion, for some

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learning opportunities, and they will be like body counts and

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friend zones and not all men and et cetera, et cetera,

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And he invites men up to discuss it and to

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say what their views are and see if he can

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sort of expand the minds, and they're just fascinating. I mean,

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sometimes it's absolute carnage where men will just be defensive cunts,

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and then other times that it will be like a miracle.

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They'll be like this moment where a man will just go,

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you're right sorry, you know, yes, it's like that's brave

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of him, that's.

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So like, wow, good for him.

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Doesn't he start each video with a specific catchphrase he does.

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It's a very British catchphrase and it is oh dear,

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where did we begin with this one? So let's welcome

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Lex into the Quincas studio.

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It's nice to meet you, like some yes, hello, all right.

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So for anyone who hasn't come across your work before,

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can you tell us who you are and what you do?

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Yeah, So I'm Lex. I'm a qualified psychotherapist. That's my

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job outside of the online work that I do. But

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online I do anti misogyny videos and lives where men

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can hopefully unpack that. So I tried to make them educational.

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A lot of men, you view it as more of

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a debate because the prompts do say at the bottom,

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if you disagree, then come up and have a conversation,

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and the minute the word disagree is there, they think, well,

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it's a debate, and I try to emphasize misogyny is

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not a debate, but a lot of the things are

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rooted in misogynistic beliefs, and that's why those opinions can

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be quite I suppose, varying as to how men have

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come to their conclusions on certain topics, and so for me,

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it's about getting to the root of understanding how you've

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come to those conclusions when the majority of the time

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it's just something you've heard and gone along with as

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part of conditioning to just say, yeah, this must be it.

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And then the videos is just kind of similar in

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terms of finding a lot of red pill content and

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just highlighting the contradictions, the hypocrisy and misogyny alongside that

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kind of a message that I would say appeals to

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a large majority audience of men, especially young men. So

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that's pretty much me in a nutshell in regards to

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what I do online.

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So that's where you are now, lex, So how did

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you get here?

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So I talk about this quite a bit. Actually, years ago,

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I had a close friend who is still a good

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friend of mine, now who challenged me on a misogynistic

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viewpoint that I had by also labeling at what it

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was and me having this reaction of what's what's misogyny?

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Don't even know what you're talking about. And that was

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just the opening of the door really in terms of

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how much I didn't know and how deep it was

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in terms of the viewpoints that I held onto. And

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then it was more flooded with me then just you know,

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asking continuous questions, trying to understand more. I originally wanted

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to go on to TikTok to do relationship content because

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I was studying to be relationship counselor as well, and

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that was kind of what I wanted to go down

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as a route. But then on my fore page I

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was getting a lot of this red pill, you know,

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videos where I was like, oh, I find myself finding

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some of the things they're saying really horrific. But then

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I agree with a couple of points they've said, So

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what's that all about? It's a bit you know, conflicting,

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And she basically got the brunt of all those videos

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for me to then say, what's.

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Going on here?

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I don't understand blah blah blah, and then through just

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going into a lot of women's spaces online and listening

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to their experiences, listening to, you know, the reasons why

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against some of the viewpoints that men had were you know,

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rooted in that misogynistic mindset. I then thought that, you know,

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would be quite powerful to be able to do that

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as a man, once I'd learned enough to begin being

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a man trying to educate men, because I believe it's

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a men's issue, it's something that men need to unpack

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amongst men, and that women shouldn't really be having the

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emotional labor of kind of educating men to.

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Not harm them.

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But in itself just sounds ridiculous to say out loud.

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So and she kind of said to me, you know,

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we live in a world where men respect men more

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than they do women, men listen to men more than

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they do women, and so arguably it could be more powerful.

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Not that it's a good thing, but just more coming

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from a man. So this idea of more male allies,

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I suppose, and I just I thought I'd give it

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a go, and I started doing mental health lives in

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the morning, built up a community. Then I started to

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drift into the anti misogyny lives and it was kind

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of around the time where there was the man or

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bear hypothetical. Yes, that's when I started, and you know,

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I did a live on that topic and for some reason,

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the live had about eight hundred people in there. I

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had no moderators, and it was an absolute mess. Oh

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my god, it was.

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It was absolutely mess. And some people were like, do

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you need a moderator, and I was like, what's a moderator? Yeah?

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So and then slowly, you know, a community forms and

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you know, you meet some incredible people, and that was

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just kind of something for me. That also a place

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of belonging online was quite nice as well, because I've

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moved home and you know, you're a bit more away

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from friends that you meet up with, and it was

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quite nice then to be able to have this whole

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you know what turned into friendships for a lot, but

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also just a community of sharing information, sharing resources, statistics websites.

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It did feel great to be able to just see

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how much was going on, to be able to then

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educate with if that makes sense, not not how great

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the amount of misogyny there is probably also the best wording.

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I meant it more in the sense of you know,

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being able to be part of a community that could

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actually give you that much more information to work with

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to try and then you know, become someone who is

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an online presence in that way. So that that's pretty

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much the journey I suppose to where I am now, Wow.

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Kind of intimated to having a couple of misogynistic views yourself.

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Are you open to telling us what those were?

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Yeah?

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So I was very much of the belief that what

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a woman wore was for the attention of men at times.

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So for me, there was that element of thinking like

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if a woman goes out clubbing or something, that the

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type of dress or outfits she might wear was to

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maybe get attention from men, and obviously that leads into

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the victim blaming mentality.

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Yeah, and she.

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Gave me this analogy which has stuck with me till today,

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where she sort of said, you know, if someone was

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walking down the street and you know, someone took a

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knife out and used it on their neck, you wouldn't

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say to them, we should have been wearing a scarf.

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And for me, that just kind of dropped that penny

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moment where I was like, oh, wow, that was quite

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and it was a bit embarrassing for myself to think,

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how did I not know this? But that's just how

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easy it was to just go along with this idea that, yeah,

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that's what women do, right, they wear clothes for men,

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you know, that's what they're looking to have a good

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time maybe, and then the deep rooted of all other

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things as well. So that was the kind of thing

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that was it for me. And then it was more

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the things of just understanding that, like when I'm driving,

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not necessarily now, even though I do catch myself with the

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odd time, you know, the mind it was like if

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something ever happened on the road, it was like, oh,

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it's a woman driver, you know. It was like always

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the typical things of like you just say it, don't you,

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because that's what you expect, even though statistically it would

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prove that men have more accidents and take more risks.

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So yeah, there's lots of individual things that would lead

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to that kind of mindset of thinking it's okay to

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just go along with that and say that because it's

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operating in my male privilege. So yeah, it was quite

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quite an opening. Let's say to then go on that

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journey and explore more so that that's where it started.

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Wow, it's a powerful start.

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It is a powerful start.

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Do you when you catch your brain doing those things

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like you just said, like when you're driving, like what

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is your immediate thought like right after?

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Well, I don't actually do it anymore because because when

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I see something happen, I'm just like, oh, I'm more

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focusing on my feelings of the situation rather than the

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deflection of like blame, even if it's like oh, I'd

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rather just say it was a man, but just more

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about like, oh, I'm feeling a bit frustrated by that. Whatever,

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it will go away, so I'm not now looking for that.

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So there was an element of like, am I trying

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to project onto it being a woman?

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Am I trying to blame?

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Which I think that does come a lot with when

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we talk about men and accountability and you know, owning

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up to certain beliefs or behaviors and recognizing the harm

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and how much that can minimize the victims or survivors

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of whatever it is that they face, regardless of what

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level of misogyny it is. So yeah, it's definitely something

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that like I don't find myself doing anymore, but mainly

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because I couldn't believe that I used to, If that

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makes sense. It's always like, wow, I actually should think

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that way, that's ridiculous. But it was quite heavily ingrained.

224
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Yeah.

225
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Yeah.

226
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Do you recall the like the kind of journeys. I mean,

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like you imagine it's so so ingrained and so habitual

228
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that how you were able to shift it. I mean

229
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there had been a transition prayer like maybe three times

230
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out of ten you blamed the woman driver, then one

231
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time out of ten, like, how did you make that transition?

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I think it's a difficult one with the driving because

233
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I don't often come into situations where, like enough where

234
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someone's done something wrong on the road.

235
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Yeah you know.

236
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I mean, like it's not like I don't drive a lot.

237
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I do, but I don't find often every journey there's

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someone doing something. I'm like, ough, you know, when I

239
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hear a lot of the things that men say, I think,

240
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like there's parts of me where I think to myself,

241
00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:19.799
do you know what, Like I know why you're thinking

242
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:22.399
that way because I was there once. I'm not saying

243
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it's acceptable. I'm just saying I know why you're thinking that,

244
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and I'm trying to almost like get underneath that layer

245
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to sort of say, let some unpack this together. Dare

246
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I say, almost like holding hands, you know, without without

247
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trying to coddle men, because I don't think that they

248
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should be. But there's there's i think, arguments on both

249
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sides for that. So for me, it's more just trying

250
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to empathize with you know, women's experiences and recognize the

251
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impact that men's behaviors have. And I think being a therapist,

252
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I do probably have a slight advantage in being able

253
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to just sit back and listen and you know, demonstrate

254
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that understanding and empathy and being curious rather than being defensive.

255
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So I've probably had that experience in separating ego from

256
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you know, reality, and I think a lot of men,

257
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from the way they come into my lives, especially let

258
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alone women's lives.

259
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You can hear what they're ready for.

260
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They're ready for an argument, they're ready to defend themselves

261
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and other men, and you're already kind of working at

262
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I suppose if I'm going to parallel that to something else,

263
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it's similar to when a client comes to therapy but

264
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they don't want therapy. It's almost like, oh, I've been

265
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told I have to do this or just because I

266
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need to. And it's like, well, we're just not going

267
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to do the work because you need to be open

268
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to this conversation or to the process, and that's where

269
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it becomes quite resistant and difficult.

270
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.799
Yeah, when you identified those certain you know, those couple

271
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of misogynistic traits so to speak, that you have, did

272
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you pinpoint that they will learned behaviors from very young

273
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or from more teenage? You know, how do you think

274
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those have developed within you?

275
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Yeah?

276
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I think it was probably Again, I will blame it

277
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on social conditioning patriarchy, and I will say that's what's

278
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responsible for it, because I think, you know, you could

279
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you can look at so many different areas in the

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world world where you can find nuances that uphold that

281
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mixed with actual statistics. So the things I talk about

282
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at times is like sometimes TV shows, you know, Friends

283
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:14.080
in particular, you know the sitcom. Oh, yes, one of

284
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the prompts I have is about the friend zone not existing.

285
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I just think it's this concept made up that men

286
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.120
sort of hide behind. And when I talk to them

287
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about Ross's character, we start to see the actual behaviors

288
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of him in how he you know, was around Rachel

289
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.159
and it was his character was quite deceptive, it was

290
00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.120
quite coercive, it was quite selfish, you know, the opposite

291
00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.639
of being a supportive friend, let's say, because it was

292
00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.120
all through the things that he wanted that he didn't communicate.

293
00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.840
And so when you address the behavior and focus on

294
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.960
what he didn't do correctly in that situation, you start

295
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:45.720
to realize it's not actually quite the love story that

296
00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:47.679
it's painted out to be. You could then tie that

297
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.679
into things like I talk about with regards to children's clothing.

298
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.679
So when you go to the boys section, typically on

299
00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:58.240
T shirts, you'll see things like cars, dinosaurs, monsters, and

300
00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.080
on girl's clothes you'll see things like fairies, bunnies, and

301
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you're looking at predator and prey and you you know

302
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.080
it's yeah, so things like that where you don't really

303
00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.519
think about it until it's pointed out, but you know,

304
00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.440
you've got dinosaurs. What type of words would you use

305
00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:19.080
to describe a dinosaur danger, scary, aggressive, big, whereas with

306
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:21.559
a bunny it would be what small, cute? You know,

307
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.840
So we have these associations. Looking at Jules's.

308
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:29.360
Reaction, Wow, my brain just like I'm that like mind

309
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:30.440
blown emoji right now.

310
00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.360
So there's nuances of it everywhere, and again I wouldn't

311
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.039
have thought of that. I wouldn't have thought of that

312
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if it was put to me. So all of this

313
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.279
education has come from women, you know, because they have

314
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experienced this, they know what's going on, they know what's

315
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.759
around them, they understand it fully.

316
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You know.

317
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The difference between it is there will be men that

318
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will hear it and just go whatever, and it's like, yeah,

319
00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.759
male privilege. You can say whatever and just not think

320
00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:57.480
about it. So there's a lot of that. One of

321
00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.720
the main questions I love asking men in the chat

322
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:01.679
when they come up on the panel. Sorry, I'll say

323
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:03.600
to them. Let's say you're walking into a charity shop

324
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with your son and he's like four years old or something,

325
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:06.840
and you're saying to him, you can go and buy

326
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:08.600
any tour you want today, You've had a great day,

327
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.000
go and pick something, and he comes back with a doll?

328
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What are you going to do?

329
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.960
And the amount of men that will say no, no, no, no,

330
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girls play with dolls. Go find something else, I'm just like.

331
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.440
So then we start to also take into consideration of,

332
00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.159
you know, gender roles and how it's like boys do this,

333
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.720
girls do that you get shamed, if you do something

334
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.200
that girls should do, you get mocked, you get bullied,

335
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.279
whatever it is. This is what makes you more of

336
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:32.399
a man. You know, these phrases man up, boys don't cry.

337
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.279
These things still exist today and they just you know,

338
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they make things worse in a world where I believe

339
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.120
is very difficult to live in. In comparison, I'm not saying

340
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.080
in the past it wasn't difficult to live in those

341
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.480
conditions or circumstances, but today there's actually just so much

342
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:53.720
more to process just technology alone, Internet, social media pressures.

343
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:56.159
There's a lot for people feeling like how do I

344
00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.240
fit into this world? So when we look at mental

345
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health for men specifically, that's getting worse. Suicide rates are

346
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at one of the highest right now, and it's like

347
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:09.200
even patriarchy recognizing that it doesn't benefit men, but men

348
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:11.960
not recognizing that they're in that system in itself. They

349
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:13.679
view it a lot of time more as a gender

350
00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.000
war versus a system war.

351
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:16.279
You know, right.

352
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.919
Now the narrative is changing. For your right mental health

353
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:25.960
is deteriorated and me aliving is really high numbers. But

354
00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:28.480
now the narrative is that women are at fault for that,

355
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:34.519
because we're no longer providing men with that patriarchal platform

356
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:38.080
to be who they need to be. So immediately, again,

357
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.759
women are blamed for the actions of men.

358
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.360
Yeah, because women aren't doing what men have always told

359
00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:48.080
women to do through through lack of rights, as in

360
00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.320
rights being taken away through I suppose again social conditioning

361
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:55.480
of patriarchy and men's voices carrying more weight, more power,

362
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.679
more more dominance, and so yeah, we're seeing birth rates

363
00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:01.879
to climent, we're seeing women divorcing more, and we're seeing

364
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.039
women not wanting to be in relationships with men as much.

365
00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.960
And the only thing that really in my mind that

366
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.759
has changed from all this is when women had to

367
00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:11.960
depend on men for finances, they.

368
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:12.480
Have no choice.

369
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.200
It was either they couldn't work, or if they did work,

370
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:16.759
the money went to the husbands. Now we're seeing women work.

371
00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.039
So I don't need a man for his money. I

372
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.000
don't need a man for his quote unquote protection because

373
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.279
arguably it'd be better if men just didn't harm rather

374
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.559
than oh, you'd protect me if there was harm. That's

375
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:28.759
that's hypothetical stuff.

376
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:30.920
Yes, it's a novel, cont isn't there.

377
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:31.559
Yeah?

378
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.599
Yeah, And I find it so frustrating when I asked men,

379
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.759
how are men protectors? Like, tell me, and they go, well,

380
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.240
if someone breaks into your house and I'm like, I've lived,

381
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.240
I've lived thirty six years. No one's ever broken into

382
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.319
my house. Touch would, and I'm great. Not something happening

383
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.000
on a daily basis where men are coming home maybe

384
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:53.440
from work, sitting on the couch watching TV, but continuously

385
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:54.480
looking at the window thinking.

386
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:59.039
Is someone going to break it? It's just I'm ready.

387
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.680
So it's not to be disrespectful, it's just more that's

388
00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.799
not protection. So if men's traditional gender stereotypical roles has

389
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.480
always been a protector and a provider and they're not

390
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.839
really doing those things now, then what do men have

391
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.519
to offer that men are also encouraging of men? Where

392
00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.480
are men saying, listen, work on your emotional intelligence, work

393
00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.160
on being a good communicator. Those are not things that

394
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:26.400
make you quote unquote masculine. So therefore men don't push that.

395
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.279
They don't think that makes you a high value man.

396
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.559
But ultimately, if that is what they think is a

397
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.640
high value man, that's not what women are after. They're

398
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.279
not after that type of a high value man because

399
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.640
they see a high value man as more. Those things

400
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.319
listed emotional intelligence, communication, and kindness. Those are I think

401
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.920
the top three things that have been more desirable for

402
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.400
women lately from what I've seen online. Yes, there are

403
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.839
going to be women who still want the tradition, you know,

404
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.319
that's entirely up to them. Got nothing against that. However,

405
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.680
if everybody pushes that narrative that's how it should be.

406
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.880
You're just upholding oppression in what it used to be like,

407
00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.440
which is men do this and then women you stick

408
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:01.200
to your role. And you know there's a lot of

409
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.480
women that don't want to be mums and that that's

410
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.720
also something that was pushed, right, is your role is

411
00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:09.559
to have children. So when that's changing, men instead of

412
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.920
not like respecting or understanding women's standards, they're saying that

413
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.160
they're unreasonable. They're saying that they're you know, too over

414
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:18.759
the top. And it's like, no, it's just because you

415
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:19.640
don't have those things.

416
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:20.799
It's all it is.

417
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:22.680
You know, if you don't have the emotional intelligence and

418
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.000
communication that you know, it's keeping a conversation stimulated. As

419
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:27.920
far as as far as a lot of women are concerned,

420
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:29.559
I want to be with someone who's present.

421
00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:30.039
In the relationship.

422
00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:34.240
Yeah, yes, and on an emotional level as well. So yes,

423
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.279
a lot of men blaming women, and women aren't even

424
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:42.119
blaming men. They're actually again blaming patriarchy, right, Patriarchy ugly

425
00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.839
is men in terms of the way it's upheld, so

426
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.440
fighting for the same system, but men are viewing it

427
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.079
as actually it's it's man hating.

428
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.680
And yes, just not that, it's just not that at all.

429
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:52.400
Yeah.

430
00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.240
And what's so what's kind of so ironic is like

431
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.480
in the space where we are met, right, because I

432
00:19:57.640 --> 00:19:58.759
have a friend of mine who I was telling her

433
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.519
about our podcast in the space, and so she listened

434
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:02.759
to a little bit of one of the audios and

435
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.720
she's like, oh my god. She's like, I'm just not

436
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.400
going to listen to someone call me a good girl

437
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:08.200
and like all this kind of she's like, this is

438
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.920
like her hackles got up her. She says, She's like,

439
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.359
I'm just too much of a feminist. And I said,

440
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.319
we'll see. That's the difference here is that in this space,

441
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:19.640
to your pointless, the creators men women are otherwise are

442
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:26.400
incredibly emotional, intelligent, sensitive, caring, compassionate. This is not that world,

443
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:28.759
and so women are drawn to this space, and we

444
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.559
hear from women a lot about how they feel healed

445
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.880
in this space because they feel really seen for who

446
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.240
they are and not objects. Right, Because it's a listener.

447
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:43.160
It's an immersive audio, so there's the voice actor and

448
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.079
then the listener is the other character, and so it's

449
00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:49.039
a very loving, compassionate type exchange. And so a lot

450
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.279
of women could look into this space from Afar and go,

451
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.440
oh my god, look at all these women pandering to

452
00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:56.240
the men. And it's like, no, you have no idea,

453
00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:58.759
Like they're being treated here in a way that they

454
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.720
don't get elsewhere. It's really hard for people to understand that.

455
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.440
I think, all right, I got to go back to

456
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.480
the I'm bringing friends the Friends show back around. So

457
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.079
I guess I'm thinking about it now that you.

458
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:08.559
Brought it up.

459
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.599
Is Rachel and Ross's love story was like the biggest

460
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.440
love story. No one saw it as coersion or anything.

461
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.319
So it wasn't until about I want to say, like

462
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.240
six or seven years ago that you started seeing people

463
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:23.279
online saying this is the show everyone thought was this

464
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.920
amazing love story blah blah blah. So I'm wondering, like,

465
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:29.000
when do you think from you know, two thousand and

466
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.000
three to now, when do you think the narratives did

467
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.279
start to change? Because I feel like all of a sudden,

468
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:36.680
everyone was talking more about this, when again in two

469
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.000
thousand and three, no one was. Were we just evolving

470
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:40.279
or is it more social media?

471
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:40.720
Yeah?

472
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.799
I think it's awareness of behaviors. I think it's recognizing

473
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.400
actually that certain behaviors that have always been supposedly accepted

474
00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:51.559
are actually harmful. And you know, we have words for that, manipulation, coercion.

475
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.319
Not to say that we never used to have those words,

476
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:56.240
but we're now able to identify them more, especially when

477
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.119
you see the whole relationship and how it started and continued.

478
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.960
So season one, episode seven, I think Ross was told

479
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.559
he's in the friend zone by Chandler and Joey. If

480
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.160
we think about his dynamic at that point, he hadn't

481
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.759
disclosed his feelings for Rachel, so she didn't know she

482
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.240
could have had an inkling, but he didn't tell her right,

483
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:16.039
So he was positioning himself as everyone's friend, so friend

484
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.839
friendship boundaries of a friendship. And then slowly you start

485
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.279
to see that she gets a partner called Paolo. When

486
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:23.519
they're around each other, you can see the jealousy. You

487
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.519
can see how uncomfortable he feels. You can then see

488
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.799
how uncomfortable the friends around him feel seeing him not

489
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.319
want to see that. Even when Rachel and Paolo are

490
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.680
kissing in front of everyone and he's there, even if

491
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:35.359
it's just a kiss goodbye, I think it was or something,

492
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.319
but just in general, he didn't like it. When they

493
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.200
then broke up, Chandler and Joey basically were saying, this

494
00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:42.279
is your chance, this is your chance to be the

495
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.000
one to go over there and show her that you're

496
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:46.119
the one that she should be with, and so he

497
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:50.400
uses that opportunity as a way to console her, but

498
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.359
also in a way of ulterior motive, which is like,

499
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.079
I'll go and support you, but deep down I want

500
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.400
something else. I want to be your friend, even though

501
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.920
you can be friends. I get it, But those feelings

502
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.759
are affecting that dynamic, because if you didn't have those feelings,

503
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:10.000
you'd go and support anyway. Yes, h Chandler could have

504
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.759
gone and supported for some reason.

505
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:14.440
You do it. Why because there's something different going on

506
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.559
for you? Yeah?

507
00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:20.039
Right, So it's not really supporting as a genuine, authentic friend, right,

508
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.400
So then the friend zone gets positioned as something you

509
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.559
can quote unquote get out of right out of this

510
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:30.440
friend zone into relationship. And the point is, this whole time,

511
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.680
Rachel didn't know as far as Rachel's concerned, you're my friend.

512
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:39.799
That's the boundary. If anything, you're just Monica's brother, you know, right.

513
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:41.400
So when we see.

514
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.160
Relationships now, or or should we say not relationship but

515
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.519
dating dynamics, we see in society a lot of time

516
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.640
now when two friends are friends for X amount of

517
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.519
years and one of them develops feelings, and let's say

518
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:55.200
it's the man in this situation. He says, look, I

519
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.200
have romantic feelings towards you. Do you want to go

520
00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.039
out on a date, blah blah blah. And she says, no,

521
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.359
I'd rather see I think we're just best being friends.

522
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:03.680
And then he'll go, oh, I've been friend zoned, and

523
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.759
it's you haven't been friend zoned. You got rejected, so

524
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:10.400
it's called what it is heat. For her, the boundaries

525
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:12.400
are the same. I saw you as a friend, I

526
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.680
still see you as a friend, So for me, we're

527
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.480
friends or nothing. So he's just added this new dynamic

528
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:20.119
of oh, friend zone and a new dynamic, a new

529
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.519
concept right, which arguably she's not in in with because

530
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:23.319
she didn't agree to that.

531
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:24.000
Or consent to that.

532
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.440
So he's just in this thing by himself, and it's like,

533
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.680
why are we giving it a word? You got rejected,

534
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:30.720
You now have a choice now. The issue that I

535
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:32.559
have with this next part is a lot of men

536
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.720
will just go okay, yeah, that's fine and accept the friendship.

537
00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:37.920
I say that a lot of men do this thing,

538
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.799
which is loitering with intent, similar to the rossing, which

539
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.799
is like, I'll accept the friendship, but you know what,

540
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:45.920
maybe over a period of time, she might change your mind.

541
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.079
So I'm going to be present. I'm still going to

542
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:52.400
be here because you never know. And if you've constantly

543
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.359
got that in your mind, then you're not actually respecting

544
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.440
the friendship. You're seeing her as a potential partner.

545
00:24:58.880 --> 00:24:59.359
Mm hmmm.

546
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:02.960
Right, So again as far as she's concerned. And by

547
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.680
the way, I don't up hold double standards. If this

548
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:06.599
was the other way round and women did this.

549
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.599
I'd say the same, yeah, yeah, of course.

550
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.680
The term is therefore, in my opinion, used to deflect

551
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.680
away from the behaviors of what does exist right manipulation

552
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.839
or communication, coercion, so when we're direct with the behavior

553
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.599
and we focus on what is existing, we can hold

554
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.160
people accountable for it, whereas in the Friends series no

555
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.519
one held him accountable for it. You know, it was encouraged.

556
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:30.279
It was encouraged to say, go on off, you go,

557
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.119
like now you can, you know, show her, rather than like,

558
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.759
hold a minute, she's just broken up from relationship. Really

559
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.839
that you want to go in and start having your

560
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:40.920
ulterior motives, you're centering yourself. So yeah, we start to

561
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:43.240
see these dynamics a little bit more for what they are.

562
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:45.400
I actually think the first time I ever heard about

563
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.480
the word misogyny was two and a half Men.

564
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.720
Oh okay, you remember that, Charlie. Yeah, now, men, that's

565
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.720
it now. I'll be honest with you. I loved the show.

566
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.119
I loved it right, and when I look at the

567
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:03.160
ingrained again patriarchy, misogyny, I'm watching it thinking, lots of money,

568
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.680
lots of women can't complain great lifestyle. I wasn't someone

569
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.480
who I never drank alcohol, so that side of it

570
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.680
what I didn't care about. But then if you look

571
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.319
at the way that Allan was posed, he was posed

572
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:17.920
as a character that was you know, stereotypically less masculine.

573
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.240
The person that did everything right in terms of had

574
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.680
a great job, didn't have things handed to him in

575
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.759
terms of that privilege, but you know, had a divorce situation,

576
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.799
stereotypically wasn't the attractive one out of the two in comparison,

577
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:36.079
and therefore then never got the women. So what does

578
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.880
that push to all the young men and teenagers watching

579
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:40.480
that They think, well, if you're not good looking and

580
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.119
if you do things right, then you don't get anywhere

581
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.559
in regards to life. But if you treat women like

582
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.200
you know, objects, and if you have money, you can

583
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:50.160
have whatever you want. So whilst whilst I watched it

584
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.319
from a comedy perspective thinking oh some of these things

585
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:54.480
that are done instaid are funny, I'm not looking at

586
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.440
it from that deep patriarchal perspective and thinking what actually

587
00:26:57.640 --> 00:26:59.240
what message is actually sending out?

588
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.240
And Charlie Shane was definitely mess at acting, then.

589
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.359
Yeah, so that's that's what I think. You know, until

590
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.440
it's put to you, you don't always notice it. You don't,

591
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.599
And that's again literally the male privilege that just is

592
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.559
like a filter, it's just not there.

593
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.119
What was that Jewels you. You taught me about some

594
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:21.599
tests that they use the movies.

595
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:23.640
The Bechdel test. Yeah, what is that again?

596
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.920
The Bechdel test, So in films it's to measure if

597
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:31.359
a woman has another conversation with another woman that's not

598
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:33.880
about a man. So if a woman talks to another

599
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.720
woman about anything else other than a man. And there's

600
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.720
so many TV shows and movies that don't like Sex

601
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:41.759
and the City that show one of my favorite shows ever,

602
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.480
that doesn't.

603
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:43.119
Pass the Bechdel test.

604
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:45.680
They're always talking about a men's they're using it now

605
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.000
to say, hang on a second, women are more than

606
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.480
talking about their guys, you know. So yeah, so they're

607
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:53.119
using it in films now to kind of just like

608
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.559
make more awareness with that.

609
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:55.799
But yeah, it's called the Bechdel test.

610
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:59.480
I love the word accountability, Lex, so a kind of

611
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.000
would like to take you back in a time machine.

612
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:08.960
And so little Lex growing up, So do you remember

613
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:13.960
little X. Look at little Alex there look cars and

614
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:16.240
his action men and his yea.

615
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:17.319
All the man.

616
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:24.160
So accountability. I don't know what your family situation. Why

617
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.720
was your father, your brother said, his siblings, uncles, all

618
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:32.599
your male influences, So when do you think accountability needs

619
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:33.200
to start.

620
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.359
I think it's I mean, it's as soon as you

621
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:38.359
are able to process the things you've done that are

622
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.720
right and wrong. Like I've got a five year old.

623
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:43.839
I know you've taken me back to little Lex. I'm

624
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:46.440
an only child, so I don't have siblings, but I

625
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:47.839
did live in the very I would say it was.

626
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:50.640
It was a privileged household in the sense that we

627
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:54.200
weren't rich but had everything we needed. Mum and dad

628
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:56.920
both work, I would say, probably times wrapped in cotton

629
00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.799
wall by mum and you know, very respectful father, very

630
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.000
nice neighborhood, very nice schools. Like it was a great childhood,

631
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.720
if I'm being completely honest. So I recognize that when

632
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.240
I look at my like, I'm trying to think of

633
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.759
ages because I can't remember too much of my childhood

634
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.160
in terms of accountability on that sense. But my son,

635
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:16.480
for example, who's five. You know, people take the mick

636
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:17.759
out of this when I share it online, but I

637
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.400
think it's actually quite important. We were filling up at

638
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.759
a petrol station not long ago, maybe four or five

639
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.759
months ago, and this woman got out of the car

640
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.400
in front to fill up petrol and he went girls

641
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:32.519
can't fill up petrol. And I thought, oh, how interesting.

642
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.200
So I looked back him and went, what made you

643
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.359
say that? And he froze, thinking have I said something wrong?

644
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.799
I don't know, and I realized in my head, I

645
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.839
thought to myself, wow, like this is quite powerful, this moment, right,

646
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.559
social conditioning happening early in real time. So then I

647
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.359
thought to myself before I respond, I'm going to just

648
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:50.960
think about it for a second in terms of you know,

649
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:52.960
I'll fill up the petrol when it's my turn, go

650
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.519
and pay, and then I'll respond when I come back,

651
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:56.440
just because I want to give myself time to process it.

652
00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.119
And I recognize, like I'm the driver of the family,

653
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.680
the one that does the school pickups, I'm the one

654
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.240
that does the school drop offs. I'm the one that

655
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:05.279
fills up the petrol and does the food shop. So

656
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:08.279
he comes with me on those things, and he sees

657
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.799
Daddy do all of those things, okay, And so he

658
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.039
sees that Mummy doesn't have a car because Mummy gets

659
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:16.640
the train to work. So then I think to myself,

660
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.839
I can understand why you'd think that. So is he

661
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:21.279
at fault for saying it?

662
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:21.960
No?

663
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:24.880
But is there an opportunity to if the word is

664
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:27.640
accountability or more just you know, teaching, whatever it might be.

665
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.279
If I leave that comment for him to think it's

666
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.839
okay to hold on to as a belief, then that's

667
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:35.960
arguably me not being held accountable, you know, because I'm

668
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.480
the one who can step in to correct that. Similar

669
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.720
to when we're at home and mummy joins in to

670
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:43.000
play football. Girls can't play football. Okay, well, let's think

671
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.200
about this. I'm always the one playing football when I

672
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.319
watch football, I do watch men's football, and I'm the

673
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:50.920
one that you know, shows him videos when matches are

674
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:52.759
on when he's asleep, and I show him the highlights.

675
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.839
So what's he processing in his mind? He's processing and

676
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:58.119
mixed with the fact that at school majority of the

677
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:01.039
time the boys are playing football, they will they will

678
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:03.920
start to shape this reality of, you know, what the

679
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.920
world is like for them, and so the accountability I

680
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.680
think is more at that age. In my opinion, the

681
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.480
accountability is on parents, Yeah, which is how are you

682
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:16.079
addressing those conversations to enable them to realize, actually, that's

683
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.279
not the way the world is though, even though you

684
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.480
might see it that way, it doesn't mean that's how

685
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.000
it has to be, you know, as in, you know

686
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:27.079
there's women's football, we know that women drive cars. So

687
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:30.039
just because he's not exposed to it, we understand how

688
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.400
he got to that conclusion. But then we we rectify that,

689
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:35.200
we correct that, and we say, actually, so when when

690
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:38.240
you know, majority of families might be reading children's books

691
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.799
about whatever stories it might be, the majority of our

692
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:43.640
books are about feelings, and you know, talking about being

693
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.480
open and honest, We've got like two or three full

694
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.599
set collections of different emotions because I think it's important

695
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.599
for him to understand how to process them as early

696
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.559
as possible. Yes, there are your obvious stories of you know,

697
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.559
silliness and you know, laughter. But what I love now

698
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:00.559
is when I say, right, god've got two boys, so

699
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.279
one of them, it's like your turn today to choose

700
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.359
the story, and they go and choose one that's about

701
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:06.720
the feeling. And then at the end, it's like just

702
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.880
asking a couple of questions, did you feel this today.

703
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:09.240
At any point?

704
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:12.079
You know one of the questions, And it's just getting

705
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.240
him to be in touch with you know, knowing it's

706
00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.960
okay to experience them, recognizing what it feels like, what

707
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:20.640
to do when you feel that way. Don't get me wrong,

708
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.599
At times they don't, you know, acknowledge it in the

709
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:26.680
moment because they're five. We have grown men who can't

710
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.240
manage their not going to expect it.

711
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:29.640
Of a five.

712
00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:34.079
But I will have that conversation because I think it's important.

713
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.599
So it's it's a balance, I think, so yeah. I

714
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.960
think coming back story to the accountability part, in that sense,

715
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:42.599
I think it is more with the parents in terms

716
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.799
of how you handle those situations. I think it'd be

717
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:47.680
a bit unfair for a five year old to need

718
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.240
to be accountable for something that they don't quite understand yet.

719
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:52.599
But I know what you mean that there has to

720
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:54.680
be a point where they start to identify it themselves,

721
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.200
and I think that would be through those behaviors at

722
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:59.920
school in terms of how you maybe talk to our student,

723
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.359
how you talk to a teacher, because the majority of

724
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:03.720
the time kids are at school more than they are

725
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:04.000
at home.

726
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:06.359
So how do you how do you navigate the kind

727
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:10.319
of overwhelm of always feeling like you're swimming upstream? You know,

728
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.720
because like you said, you can, you know, teach the

729
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:15.559
kids in your life one way, but then they go

730
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.000
someplace else and it's just completely undone. So how do

731
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:20.920
you how do you keep going.

732
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:23.839
Well, because I think you have to. It's tough because

733
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:25.400
I think, yes, you're you're always going to be battling

734
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:28.720
against the social aspects of you know, whoever is around

735
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.359
you that's out of your control mhm. So unfortunately, again

736
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:34.079
it has to come to the internal, which is, I

737
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.079
believe what I'm doing is the best for you know,

738
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.319
our family, for our children, and I'm going to keep

739
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.640
sticking to that because I believe that's the right way

740
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:43.759
and that other families are going to say the same

741
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.720
even if it goes against it mm hm. So part

742
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.799
of that conversation is also reminding them that you know,

743
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.519
other people have different views. So there's an element of yes,

744
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.480
i'm your parent, and yes there are boundaries that don't

745
00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:59.359
get crossed. But at the same time, there's there's pockets

746
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.079
of autonomy that you can give to your children where

747
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:05.000
they feel like they were part of decision making. You know,

748
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.880
even from the very typical right, we're going out later,

749
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:10.960
there's three options, which one do you want to choose? Okay,

750
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.480
I want to do that perfect now we're all in agreement,

751
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.480
but we gave you a bit of autonomy to be

752
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.119
involved in that conversation, you know, so a little bit

753
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.800
to them, but the majority still holds of that power

754
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:26.400
dynamic in you as the authoritative parent. But apply that

755
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:30.079
to your conversations as well. Right, so, you know you've

756
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.760
got some reading to do, and I can hear that

757
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.079
you don't want to do that because for you it's boring.

758
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:35.400
How can we make it exciting?

759
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:36.760
I'll tell you what.

760
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:38.360
Let's see how long it takes you to read these

761
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:40.559
two pages, just to see whether or not you can

762
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.360
do it in less than and you can give a

763
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:44.679
ridiculous number, like if you know they can read it

764
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:46.079
in two minutes, you say, let's see if you can

765
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.519
do it in less than five. Yeah, yeah, yes, And

766
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:50.320
I'm not saying do it every time because then, yes,

767
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.239
I know you're kind of conditioning your children to then

768
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.400
do it based on time. But for a way of encouragement,

769
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.639
as a one off, you can do that a little

770
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.199
bit of fun, make it a bit of fun, you know,

771
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.800
and then go back to the tomorrow's a new day.

772
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.559
Hopefully tomorrow wee can do the reading. And yeah, I

773
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:08.280
think it's about being as inclusive as you can where

774
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.400
they don't feel like it's always hearing the word no, yes.

775
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.599
You know, they go off to their friends and it's like, oh,

776
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.320
it's so unfair. And then suddenly they're listening to what

777
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:19.280
they have and before you know it, friendships are you know,

778
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.920
coliding together, and it's like, oh, now you've got to

779
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.119
battle against what their friends are affirming.

780
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.559
Which is the problem because you said, you know, going

781
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:31.960
out into the big wide world, the influence is there,

782
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:35.840
the fear of being the odd one. Now in a

783
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:41.320
group of lads where you know one of them, you know,

784
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:47.119
exhibits bad behaviors towards a woman and nobody else says anything.

785
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:50.639
That's another part of accountability to So I assume you

786
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:55.039
do that now, Lex, But how do we get those

787
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:59.639
silent men to start making their friends, their family members,

788
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.559
male friends and family members accountable for the behaviors that

789
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:06.840
they express towards women in public or behind the doors.

790
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:11.199
It has to be through again, unfortunately, encouraging conversations in

791
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.800
the sense that you are doing this because you care

792
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.320
and because you have you know, these men will have

793
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:18.599
women in their lives. Is when you make it about

794
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.960
their family members, they suddenly get it. Yep, you know,

795
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.320
like if it was your sister, if it was your mother,

796
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.000
and it's like, oh yeah, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable

797
00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:27.880
if they were being cat called across the street. You're right,

798
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.800
I'd feel a certain way. Okay, perfect, So the only way,

799
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.920
the only reason you feel that way is because you

800
00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:35.000
know the person and you have a relation to them.

801
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:37.559
But with the greatest respect the next woman it happens to,

802
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.719
just because you're not related to them doesn't mean that

803
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.199
it's any less of a problem. And there will be

804
00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:44.039
men in her lives that will feel the way you do,

805
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.760
because she will have family members, she will have loved ones.

806
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.639
So men need to try and apply it to a

807
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.480
societal level rather than this idea of close proximity. One

808
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.880
of the phrases, or should I say, talking points is

809
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.079
I don't know if you've heard it, but it's all

810
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:56.920
men intal no men.

811
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.360
And if you've ever heard yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.

812
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.599
So I have that on my panel as a prompt

813
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:07.480
a lot of the time, and you know, it's one

814
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:09.119
of the biggest ones that men get triggered by.

815
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:10.679
You know, they think that they've made it a point

816
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.119
when they go does that include you? Lex And I'm like, yeah,

817
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.320
you know, doesn't say all men intal no men except me.

818
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:19.760
I'm the only one bit ridiculous to say that.

819
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.760
I said, of course, And they don't quite understand it

820
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:26.119
unless you personalize it. And so what I try to

821
00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:27.719
do is I try to say to them that I'll

822
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.400
include myself in these hypotheticals with you so that you

823
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:32.480
don't feel like you're targeted. And that's what I mean

824
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:34.639
about the coddling. It's like I almost feel like I

825
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:36.840
have to coddle these men when I talk about this.

826
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:39.719
So I put myself in there because I get it,

827
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:41.400
but for some reason they don't. So I'm like, chuck

828
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:42.039
me in the equation.

829
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:42.800
Now let's talk.

830
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.039
But the issue that I have is that men also

831
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:47.199
believe in the phrase all menntal no men. They just

832
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.400
say it differently. And this is the bit that I

833
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.440
find quite interesting. So I'll ask men if they think

834
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.440
that boyfriends have an issue if their girlfriends wanted to

835
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:58.119
go clubbing without them, and they'd say yeah. A lot

836
00:37:58.119 --> 00:37:59.800
of them will say yeah, some will say no, that's fine,

837
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:01.480
some will say yeah. And I go, why do you

838
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.119
think there are men out there that would have an issue?

839
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.039
And I'll say oh, because you know they might cheat

840
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.239
on me. And I'm like, okay, well that's an insecurity

841
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:10.519
of your relationship if you feel your partner would cheat

842
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.039
on you. What else, though, because I'm not saying it's

843
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.679
not valid you feel. It's how you feel. But what else, Like,

844
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.320
is there anything about their safety? And like, oh, yeah,

845
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.000
a man could follow her, or a man could put

846
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.039
something in her drink or approach her and not leave

847
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:27.840
her alone. And I go, okay, would you feel more comfortable?

848
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:29.800
She said, I'm going to an all women's club. I'll

849
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.440
say yeah, I'm like okay, So what's clear is you

850
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.400
feel more uncomfortable when men are around. They're like yeah, okay,

851
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.760
So now we're get in somewhere. So you're not saying

852
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.079
every man at that club is going to harm your partner,

853
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.280
but you recognize enough men behave in that way that

854
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.920
some might. And the point is you're not going to

855
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.559
say I know which men I feel comfortable about and

856
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:51.639
which men I don't, because you don't know which men

857
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:54.719
are at the club. But that discomfort that you feel

858
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.559
is applied to any man in proximity to her, because

859
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:00.079
you know that some of these men are want of

860
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.559
these men could do that, And I said, that's exactly

861
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:04.880
how women feel when they say that they're wary and

862
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.159
cautious of men. Is you could be the nicest guy

863
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:08.880
in the world, you could be the kindest man in

864
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:10.960
the world. You could even have like a title of

865
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:13.480
that by being awarded it from somewhere. But if you're

866
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:14.800
walking next to a woman on the street and she

867
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:16.840
doesn't know who you are, you're just a man, you know,

868
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:19.639
and you have to recognize that that it's not about

869
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:21.480
you personally. So I always say to them the same

870
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:23.960
for me. If I'm walking past a woman on the street,

871
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.800
she doesn't know who I am, right, why would I

872
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:31.000
expect her to just automatically feel safe walking past me

873
00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:35.760
when I feel safe because again of privilege in that situation, yep,

874
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.280
because I know I'm not going to do anything, but

875
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.079
she doesn't. That's the difference right already, even from the

876
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.840
thought process, I hold the power in that dynamic. So

877
00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:46.079
that's one of the biggest things that I talk about

878
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:49.280
is again a lot of its contradictions hypopc diasees, and

879
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:51.960
that that's where the explorative topics around that come from

880
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:52.280
as well.

881
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.320
Yeah, I think that the conversational part is so big

882
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.159
that you say because even sometimes it's hard for even me,

883
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.519
Like an example, I this just made me with talking

884
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:02.239
about the bars, is I a couple of years ago

885
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.039
was at a bar where they have on the menu

886
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:06.119
you can order a shot. A woman could order a

887
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.320
shot if they feel uncomfortable with a guy. I don't

888
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:10.000
know if you've ever heard of that. They do that someplace.

889
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:12.880
They usually call them angel shots, So if some guy

890
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:14.920
is following you around or something, you can go up

891
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:16.480
to the bar and say, hey, I need an angel shot.

892
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.239
And I remember I was just talking with some guy

893
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:20.559
that was at the bar while I was waiting for

894
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:21.840
a drink, and that was on the menu, and he

895
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.000
was like, oh, like well, I would never do that,

896
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.760
And I almost didn't say anything, but I decided to

897
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:27.719
and I looked at him and I go, but how

898
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:28.239
do I know that?

899
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:30.519
And he was just like what.

900
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:31.800
I was like, I don't know who you are.

901
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:33.639
How do I know that? And it was like the

902
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:36.159
only time I'd ever actually spoken up and saw kind

903
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:41.039
of his sort of realization like hmm huh, yes, but

904
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:42.320
I almost didn't say anything.

905
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.800
Yeah for me, then if you're if a man has

906
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:49.960
explained it that way, or with his ten cookies chocolate chip.

907
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:51.639
Nine of them have chocolate chips in it, one of

908
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.320
them has dogshit chips. Eat the cookies and they'll go no, no, no,

909
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:56.840
because I don't know which one is, because they will

910
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:57.280
look the same.

911
00:40:57.719 --> 00:40:57.960
For me.

912
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.840
Then, if a man is explained and they still don't

913
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:07.119
get it, I believe me believing that they then feel

914
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.079
they are entitled to do what they want with women,

915
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:11.519
and there's no changing them. If you ever explained something

916
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.599
to detail, it's so clear, and then they still don't

917
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.840
agree with it, and they're actually angrily defensive about it.

918
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.320
For me, they are men that will have a tendency

919
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.760
or have already done things bad to women.

920
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:25.559
This is the problem is that a lot of men

921
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:28.119
do get defensive about it. And I've seen some content

922
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.400
creators who have seen that analogy and then they go

923
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.760
and do their own video take on it and say, well,

924
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:36.239
you know, you can't really think like that, because you know,

925
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.800
you would take each cookie one by one and you

926
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.159
would get to know the cookie to see whether it

927
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:42.719
is okay to eat blah blah blah.

928
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.880
And I'm like that now we're just fixed in blaming Yeah.

929
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:47.960
Yeah, because I'll do that walking down the street dark

930
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:49.800
at night on my own mind, right, Yeah.

931
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:51.840
But arguably also what men are going to come up

932
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.400
to you and go hey, in five years time, I

933
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:57.559
plan on being abusive, right like men don't saying men

934
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.599
don't show those behaviors from bel if that is what

935
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:02.800
their intention is going to be. And so there's now

936
00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:06.239
this victim blaming mindset of women should know when you're

937
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.320
getting to know someone, you should spot the red flags,

938
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.360
you should know how he's going to behave And it's like,

939
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:12.880
this is the issue is that the emphasis gets placed

940
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:15.079
on the victim as opposed to who is the one

941
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:18.039
who is causing the hum That's where you know, that's

942
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:22.000
where the limelight needs to be showne on right, because

943
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:26.760
it just diminishes the survivor's experience of whatever it might be. So, yes,

944
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.519
I do agree that if men don't quite understand it

945
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.280
from that, then I'm wondering what it is they're operating

946
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.639
in as a defense mechanism. You'll get a lot of

947
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.760
men that will try to deviate to you know, trying

948
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:40.760
to apply that phrase to other demographics. They'll try and say, well,

949
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:42.639
then you could just say this about this demographic, and

950
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.559
they don't realize that any demographic you're trying to apply

951
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:48.159
it to would be inclusive of men. So if you're

952
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.400
trying to take out a demographic, you are just being

953
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.000
either racist, transphobic, or homophobic if you're focusing on that demographic,

954
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.679
because they would also come under men anyway. So now

955
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:01.800
you're trying to exclude a group when men are already

956
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.239
the privileged group in comparison to women the oppressors. Unfortunately,

957
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.079
men do reveal themselves a lot when they, you know,

958
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:08.960
talk about these topics and the ways that they try

959
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:10.079
to tackle it.

960
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.000
Can you think of like one or two examples from

961
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.360
I know, you know, you have very successful lives on

962
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:18.519
TikTok and you do this panel. Can you share, like,

963
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.719
what are two examples of conversations you've had with men

964
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:22.920
who came up on the panel and you really felt

965
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.159
a shift in them or saw a shift in them.

966
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.880
Yeah, I mean I had one yesterday. And what I'm

967
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:29.480
trying to do is actually clip some of these to

968
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.199
be able to put on my YouTube channel to have

969
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:36.079
as moments. One of them mainly body count. Body count

970
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:38.320
is the biggest one, So I do the whole topic

971
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.199
around yeah.

972
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:41.159
Reaction.

973
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:44.039
Lord.

974
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.280
And so I think, like I tried to frame it.

975
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.199
From the perspective of getting them to detach away from

976
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:53.119
the number versus the context. If a woman told you

977
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.719
her BodyCount was thirty, I always say, it doesn't actually

978
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.800
tell you anything factual about who they are as a person.

979
00:43:59.239 --> 00:43:59.679
Doesn't tell you.

980
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.320
That doesn't tell you if they're they've got a good

981
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:04.840
sense of humor, doesn't tell if they're respectful, doesn't tell

982
00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:06.679
you if they've got same you know, goals in the future.

983
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.360
So what you're doing is you're taking a number and

984
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:11.679
you're making up stories. You're making up assumptions on what

985
00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:14.119
it means. Yeah, oh, if your body can'ts thirty, it

986
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.840
must mean this. No, that's what you think it means.

987
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.719
And so I always say that actually you're projecting your

988
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.519
beliefs onto body count mattering, and the initial part of

989
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:27.960
it is misogyny or insecurities. So so men might say, well,

990
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.559
if a woman's had you know, that much sex, that

991
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.159
much sex, then you know she's got no self respect

992
00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:35.679
or you know, they try and use the car.

993
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.760
And mileage analogy. But if you've heard yeah, yeah, the

994
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:41.400
lock and key analogy.

995
00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.159
And it's like ye, well, and it's it's so it's dehumanizing,

996
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:47.599
it's objectifying, and it's degrading, right, So that's the misogyny.

997
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:50.199
Whereas some men will say, yeah, but she she might

998
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.760
cheat on you, or she might compare you to other men,

999
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.119
she might compare the size of other men to you,

1000
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:58.840
and I'm like, okay, well that's your insecurity. So what

1001
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.840
I'm saying is the body count is not the issue.

1002
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:03.679
It's the way you interpret that number.

1003
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:04.679
That is the issue.

1004
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:06.639
And where's that coming from. So I do get a

1005
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.440
lot of men that hear that and think, okay, like

1006
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:10.519
I'm starting to see that, and then yeah, there's been

1007
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:13.599
I think there's probably four or five men that come

1008
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:17.440
back all the time after having their perspectives changed and

1009
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:19.519
now support the Live. It's really nice to see that.

1010
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:22.400
And they're always, yeah, i'll be honest with you, that

1011
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.079
doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like a lot after

1012
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:25.159
a couple of years, but.

1013
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:27.599
That's right.

1014
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:29.480
But in terms of the fact that they come back

1015
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.119
and stay, that's what I mean. They are now supporting

1016
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:35.000
the live. Some of them also, you know, they've spoken

1017
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:37.119
about stories where they talk to their friends at work

1018
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.039
and how that's you know, changed perspectives. And I always

1019
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:42.639
say to people, you have to recognize, in my opinion,

1020
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:45.039
that you don't know who's in the life just watching you.

1021
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.320
Two days ago, I think the live was on about

1022
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.480
four hundred you know people watching, and I know I

1023
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.719
get roughly two hundred who are you know, regular supporting.

1024
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:56.239
But when those numbers go up, a lot of men

1025
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:57.840
will not want to come up and talk, and a

1026
00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:59.559
lot of men will not want to type comments. They'll

1027
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:01.960
just want to and listen and see what's said. And

1028
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:04.320
you just don't know what conversations that sparks off with

1029
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:05.719
people in their life where they go to you know what.

1030
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:07.039
I was on a live the other day they said this,

1031
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:09.800
what do you think? And it's the conversations that are

1032
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:14.760
being had that hopefully make changes. So in immediate view

1033
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:16.679
of seeing change, yes, there have been men that have

1034
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:20.239
changed perspectives. And even today, those same men will see

1035
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.039
new prompts that I put up and they'll go, right,

1036
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:24.039
I don't get this one explained to me, and I'm like,

1037
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:28.719
of course, and then I'll go ah, and I'm like yeah,

1038
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:34.119
but they're curious at least, right, And I think the

1039
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.760
best feeling that I get from it without trying to

1040
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.480
cener myself too much. Is when the men say, do

1041
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:41.239
you know what, I've watched you for about three or

1042
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:42.960
four months now, and I really hated you when I

1043
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.880
first watched you, and now I'm starting to get it,

1044
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:47.440
and I'm like, I appreciate that because I'm like, you

1045
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:48.239
know what, I don't care.

1046
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.800
If you like me or not.

1047
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:51.199
I'm not there to be liked, right, I'm there to

1048
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.119
provide the information and education. Yes, some people might not

1049
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:55.920
like the way I deliver it, but that's no different

1050
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:57.199
to being at school and saying I don't deal with

1051
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:59.519
this teacher. I don't learn in that way, and that's fine.

1052
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.480
I'm not going to tailor it to every individual that

1053
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:03.920
might be needing to hear it differently and then to

1054
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.559
do it my way and if it aligns, great. But

1055
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:08.920
while I will always say in that space is please

1056
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:11.599
go and spend time in women's lives who are hosting

1057
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.000
similar prompts or slightly different, and go and look at

1058
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.760
the way they are treated in comparison. Because I have

1059
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:22.840
a fantastic moderator team, they are receiving death threats, sexual

1060
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:26.199
sexually explicit threats in DMS. All the time things that

1061
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.880
also go way beyond that in terms of affecting real

1062
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:31.119
life situations. And I look at it and think to myself,

1063
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:33.280
there's me hosting the live and I don't get any

1064
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.400
of that, and yet the moderators who are protecting the

1065
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.280
space women are then on the receiving end.

1066
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:41.360
And it's like, do you.

1067
00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:44.440
Feel that if there's a connection between man's misogyny and

1068
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:48.480
his own emotional wounds rather than a man's misogyny based

1069
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:49.440
on just being a.

1070
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:55.119
Dick own emotional wounds.

1071
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:59.000
It's really difficult because I think that the society that

1072
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:02.159
we're being brought up in today, I think is probably

1073
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:06.039
the most awareness being raised on social media for men's behavior,

1074
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.360
mainly because of the you know, the capability that social

1075
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:11.519
media has, but also because of how quick stories get

1076
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:14.199
to be shared around, so it's always being spoken about.

1077
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:18.000
More people are speaking up about it, and I think

1078
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:21.480
that you know, generates a feeling within men when they

1079
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.639
see all of that, because they sort of, you know, think, oh,

1080
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:26.599
I'm just being painted as one of these men and

1081
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:29.039
I'd never do something like that, But then they'll switch

1082
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:30.960
off from that content and not really engaged.

1083
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:31.440
You know.

1084
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:34.360
It's just like, well, you know, that's that's horrible. But

1085
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.159
I move on and carry on, and men get to

1086
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.280
kind of turn a blind eye to that, and the

1087
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.920
only thing they need to do really is just talk

1088
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:45.159
about how it bothers them and their image, so again

1089
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.280
centering themselves, and it lacks that empathy to be extended

1090
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.880
to the other side. You know, it's a conversation. But

1091
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.159
the reason women are talking about this with what I

1092
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.920
would describe is as passion is then also then misconstrued

1093
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:01.119
to you know, all she's quite aggressive, or she's quite angry,

1094
00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:09.000
or like, all she's emotional. Yeah, and it's and this

1095
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:12.440
is the issue, right is again it's just it's infantalizing,

1096
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:12.760
isn't it?

1097
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:14.400
You know exactly?

1098
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:17.159
Dare I use the word privilege again.

1099
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:17.079
But.

1100
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:22.440
Seems it seems to be Yeah, it really does. I

1101
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:23.760
would always encourage that.

1102
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.639
I think it was yourself, Kaz that mentioned earlier about

1103
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:30.480
the group of boys in terms of saying something in

1104
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:33.719
your friendship group and being about how you get treated.

1105
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:34.000
Right.

1106
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.239
This is another example is that men cling on to

1107
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:41.159
friendships that don't really benefit them. I've said a lot

1108
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:42.480
of the time that I think a lot of men's

1109
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:44.280
and even teenage boys. But I think a lot of

1110
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:48.320
men's friendships are surface level, Right, how did you become friends?

1111
00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:49.119
Are gaming?

1112
00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:52.840
Football, sport? You know, maybe going out to the pub

1113
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:55.199
and whatever it might be, Right, it's it's all stuff

1114
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:58.480
that you enjoy doing, which is great, but the level

1115
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:02.719
of conversation usually sticks on those kind of topics. Yeah,

1116
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:05.960
and it's like, at what point do you explore emotional

1117
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:09.039
concepts in a friendship where you can say, hey, whilst

1118
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:11.480
we have all this fun together, are we ever able

1119
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:13.480
to be there to support each other on emotional level?

1120
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:16.800
I think that if a majority of friendships, I think

1121
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.400
if men were really feeling something and they know how

1122
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.199
their friends behave, they don't feel they can go to

1123
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:24.079
their friends about it because they'll be ostracized, they'll get bullied,

1124
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.920
they'll get ridiculed, and then they'll realize actually that their

1125
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.719
friendships are not as strong as they thought they were.

1126
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:30.159
So what do we have?

1127
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.400
We have friendships where men are suppressing again because they'd

1128
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:37.360
rather do that than lose their sense of belonging and community,

1129
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.679
rather than thinking, actually, maybe it's not actually as healthy

1130
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:41.880
of a friendship as I thought it was.

1131
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:44.719
That's a really good point about the male friendships because

1132
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:47.239
even like some of my brothers, my husband, they are

1133
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:49.840
so surprised when they hear about the level of things

1134
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:52.880
that women talk about together, Like you told them that you.

1135
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:55.000
Talked about that with them. I'm like, yeah, it's like

1136
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:56.159
an everyday text I send.

1137
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:58.239
I'm curious your take on this because I know you,

1138
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.920
like you said before, you like the of men or

1139
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:04.400
you know, there might be four or five instances that

1140
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.119
you can think of where men were really impacted by

1141
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:07.840
your lives. But then the people that they share with

1142
00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:10.280
is great. I just saw someone post us recently online

1143
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.800
about how you know they don't want to kind of

1144
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.800
applaud men for speaking up for women because they should

1145
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.480
have been doing it all along. I won't impart my opinion,

1146
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:21.559
but what are your thoughts on that.

1147
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:24.880
It kind of reminds me of the perspective of men

1148
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:28.000
being protectors, where it's almost like we're calling not we,

1149
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.159
but figuratively speaking, we're calling men protectors on the basis

1150
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.719
that men are causing harm to begin with, right, So

1151
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:35.800
if men of the perpetrators are they also the protectors?

1152
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:36.679
That doesn't make sense.

1153
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.159
Yeah, So to come back to your point, it's like, yes,

1154
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.800
are we praising men for speaking up when the only

1155
00:51:41.920 --> 00:51:44.320
reason they are speaking up is because there's a problem

1156
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:46.800
that men created in the first place. So no, I

1157
00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:48.960
think it's a bare minimum thing, which is like, actually,

1158
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:51.360
we should all be doing it anyway, but are we

1159
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.400
at times doing it because we have to, you know,

1160
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:57.039
And that's really that's really what's quite sad, is that

1161
00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.840
there is an issue amongst men whereby those behaviors have

1162
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:03.320
got to a point where yes, men are speaking up

1163
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:05.760
about it, and then sometimes they do get praised. Sometimes

1164
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:06.519
it happens to me.

1165
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:07.360
I get really.

1166
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:11.039
Uncomfortable when I'm in the lives and you know, people

1167
00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:12.920
are saying, oh, Lex, you're doing such an amy, You're

1168
00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:14.920
doing God's work, You're doing amazing, and I'm just like,

1169
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:17.239
I don't really like that because for me, it's it's

1170
00:52:17.400 --> 00:52:19.519
that's not what this is about. It's you know, it's

1171
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:22.719
just bare minimum stuff. It's it's educating men because this

1172
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:25.239
is something we have to deal with. That's just me

1173
00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:27.119
doing my bit because I think that's what we need

1174
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:27.320
to do.

1175
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.239
We'll be right back to continue our conversation with Lex

1176
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.920
straight after the next installment of Peaching It Real.

1177
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:43.639
Teaching It Real will every time we gets freeview thieves,

1178
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:49.119
hearting thoughts, cun being served every time.

1179
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:56.599
Thank you Kasa, Jules and Smudge. This is peaching it real,

1180
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:01.320
and I'm peachers. In this segment, I'm going to be

1181
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.960
talking about men and how men can be better or

1182
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:08.360
should be better, to be honest, because over the last

1183
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:11.519
few weeks, over the last few months, over the entirety

1184
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:16.760
of our existence on this planet, men have been doing

1185
00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:22.159
abhorrent things, and I would say it needs to stop,

1186
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:27.280
but round every corner there is something more abhorrent, and

1187
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.800
it makes me ashamed of my gender. It truly does.

1188
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:36.760
Just as I was about to start recording, I was

1189
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:40.760
scrolling on Instagram and one of my favorite accounts has

1190
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.760
come up. It's good for keeping you abreast of news

1191
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.039
in terms of feminism, My Voice, my Choice org. So

1192
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:48.400
if anyone's not following.

1193
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:48.719
Go and have a look.

1194
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:51.079
It'll keep you up to date about what's happening in

1195
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:56.800
the world concerning feminine women's health issues, etc. I've just

1196
00:53:56.920 --> 00:54:01.559
read that the head of the German Criminal Investigators BDK

1197
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.920
is telling women not to date men because they are

1198
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:11.719
a danger to their safety. So once again a man

1199
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:16.599
has told women the whole country full of women not

1200
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:22.000
to date men because men are dangerous. This is, in

1201
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:26.000
my eyes, just the same as someone telling a woman

1202
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:30.079
not to wear something because it might attract the attention

1203
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:34.239
of men. And the thing is, I am not shocked.

1204
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.440
That's the really, really sad thing. I am not shocked

1205
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:41.920
to see that. It's almost as if we've come to

1206
00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:46.880
this point where we've exhausted all other options and now

1207
00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:51.920
it's falling onto women. It's falling onto a criminal investigation

1208
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:56.519
department to tell women to abstain from any kind of

1209
00:54:56.679 --> 00:55:00.360
direct contact with men because of how dangers as they

1210
00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:04.559
can be. And when I hear men say it's not

1211
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:10.559
all men, it makes me think, prove it. We're not

1212
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.480
proving it as a gender right now, that we are

1213
00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:20.320
a safe part of this world. Calling out bad behavior

1214
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:23.159
is one thing, and it's important that we continue to

1215
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:26.880
do that, and within the AE community, I've been seeing

1216
00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:29.000
a lot of that recently, and it's so good to

1217
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:34.079
see that people are standing up themselves and giving men

1218
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:37.000
that slap on the wrist. Right, but a slap on

1219
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:43.960
the wrist is not enough to fully educate. Realistically, nothing's

1220
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.679
going to happen overnight, right, This is going to be

1221
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:51.119
an ongoing battle. Just as it took Andy DeFraine years

1222
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:53.960
and years to chisel his way through that prison wall

1223
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:57.760
to freedom, it is going to take a long long

1224
00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:02.920
time to inform and even through that journey, there are

1225
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:04.960
going to be more roadblocks, There are going to be

1226
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.719
more hurdles to jump over. But the only thing that

1227
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:10.639
we can do is try and remain positive and try

1228
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:14.039
and inform and try and educate as we go along.

1229
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:21.159
For example, I was at my barber's yesterday and the

1230
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.320
next client came in, and the barber and him, they

1231
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:26.760
obviously knew each other quite well, and they started talking.

1232
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:30.960
They got onto the subject of their partners, and then

1233
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:34.440
within that they were talking about how long it takes

1234
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.239
for their partners to get ready, and how it only

1235
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:40.800
takes them about fifteen minutes. And I was just listening.

1236
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:43.800
I was, you know, they were laughing. You know, that

1237
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:47.639
hideous word, banter back and forth. I hate that word

1238
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:48.119
so much.

1239
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:49.280
Is just hideous.

1240
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:53.920
So I waited and I waited, and then once they'd

1241
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.639
kind of, you know, gotten to a point in the

1242
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.559
conversation where they were both very much in agree with

1243
00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:05.519
each other, I brought up I just asked my barble

1244
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:08.599
the question, so, why do you think it takes them

1245
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:12.719
so long to get ready? And he said, oh, I know,

1246
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.280
they just want to look good. And I said, so,

1247
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.480
why do you think they want to look good? I said, well,

1248
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.119
they probably want to look good for me, or they

1249
00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:22.719
don't want to feel self conscious when they're in public.

1250
00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:26.159
And I was like, that's right, that's right. Why do

1251
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:29.480
you think they don't want to feel self conscious in public?

1252
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:33.360
And he didn't say anything, and I said, it's because

1253
00:57:33.800 --> 00:57:39.880
they have such harsh critique from for the most part, men.

1254
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:44.000
So this is a cyclical thing that has happened. This

1255
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:49.320
is something that has been involving for centuries that women

1256
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:54.440
need to make themselves look a certain way in order

1257
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:57.639
to be accepted by men, in order to not get looks,

1258
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:02.760
in order to bee fee confident enough just to simply

1259
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:07.239
exist in public. And so there was a little bit

1260
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:09.840
of a silence after I said that, and then the

1261
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.559
guy on the sofa said, you know, I'd not thought

1262
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:16.159
about it that way. And it's these little moments I

1263
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:20.519
before I asked the guy that question, before I asked

1264
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:23.719
my barber those questions, my heart was going and I

1265
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:28.920
was fearful of their reactions. To that because I've always

1266
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:34.760
been fearful of men myself. I've never really gotten on

1267
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:40.800
well in very male environments because I have never really

1268
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:45.400
quite understood that kind of side of masculinity before. I've

1269
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.679
never been a part of a group like that in

1270
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:53.559
my life, and doing something like that is terrifying for

1271
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:57.639
someone who has never been part of the typical lad

1272
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.840
culture that's what we call it in the UK anyway.

1273
00:59:03.320 --> 00:59:07.119
But it was that little fearful moment, those few seconds

1274
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.280
that I doubted whether I wanted to say anything, that

1275
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:13.800
was so important because the reaction I got was not

1276
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.440
one that I was expecting. I didn't get that much

1277
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:18.079
of a reaction out of the barber. He didn't really

1278
00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:20.440
say anything, but the guy who sat on the sofa,

1279
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.400
it felt like he kind of accepted what I had said.

1280
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:28.199
And it's those moments that we need to really look

1281
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.840
for when we're in friendship groups, when we're out and

1282
00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:35.559
about if it's just a stranger's conversation that you're overhearing,

1283
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:38.960
that could be a little bit more dangerous because you

1284
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:42.440
don't know the people at all. Some people do like

1285
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.679
to call that out, and that's great. Personally, I think

1286
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:49.519
i'd be a bit too fearful of that unless I'm

1287
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:53.400
in a group of people, So by yourself, be careful

1288
00:59:53.639 --> 00:59:56.800
if you're thinking of doing that. But it's this is

1289
00:59:56.920 --> 01:00:01.599
just an example of how things could possibly progress. We

1290
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:06.400
just need to educate, educate, and not simply call out.

1291
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.519
That being said, please keep calling people out because it

1292
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:13.960
is so so important, but if you can educate a

1293
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:18.199
long way, that is even more important. And I'm not

1294
01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:23.119
saying this to say directly to anyone in particular, because

1295
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.039
I know that the people who are listening right now

1296
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:31.119
are largely women or non binary people. But you will

1297
01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:36.920
all know men in your life. So men educating men

1298
01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:38.079
is what we're looking for.

1299
01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:39.159
Right.

1300
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:44.239
This shouldn't fall on anyone else as hard as it should.

1301
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:50.039
Men to educate men. So tell your partners, tell your brother,

1302
01:00:50.199 --> 01:00:55.119
tell your dad, tell your grandfather, tell your your cousins,

1303
01:00:55.239 --> 01:01:00.679
tell your nephews. To educate other men, and if they're

1304
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.000
the ones in need of education, get someone to kick

1305
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:11.159
them up the bum and change their views somehow. Because,

1306
01:01:11.199 --> 01:01:14.079
as we know, the men who are a part of

1307
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:18.360
the manusphere or who have been influenced by the manisphere,

1308
01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:21.440
what they were really looking for, What they're looking for

1309
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:28.559
is strength as a person and guidance a place in

1310
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:32.480
this world. And all that's happened is they've gone looking

1311
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:38.639
in the wrong place and they've stumbled into a hideously toxic,

1312
01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:44.679
misogynistic space that they think is strength, which it obviously

1313
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:48.360
isn't to so many people on the outside looking in.

1314
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:51.760
So I'm going to leave it there. Thank you for

1315
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:55.239
listening to another segment of Peaching It Real. This one

1316
01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:57.320
ran on a little bit longer because, as you can

1317
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:02.000
probably tell, I'm quite passionate about this subject. So thank

1318
01:02:02.079 --> 01:02:06.199
you Kazah, Jules and Smudge yet again for indulging me,

1319
01:02:06.320 --> 01:02:10.119
for allowing me the space, and I'll see you very soon.

1320
01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:11.199
Bye bye. Now.

1321
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:14.840
You can find Peaches on Instagram and TikTok OnlyFans, and

1322
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:17.400
as a voice actor on the Quinn app. He also

1323
01:02:17.480 --> 01:02:20.679
has an active Discord and Patreon community. All the links

1324
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:22.000
can be found in our show notes.

1325
01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:29.079
So we recently have the Louis throw Monosphere, which I

1326
01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:35.119
think has thrown up an awful lot of conflict and conversations. Yeah,

1327
01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:38.679
how did you feel about that particular show on what

1328
01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:40.280
it showed, what it represented?

1329
01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:42.760
So I was quite I was a little bit underwhelmed

1330
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:45.440
but that's because I think I'm aware of all these behaviors.

1331
01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:48.519
So I believe Myron was one of the people in there. Yeah,

1332
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.079
I've spent two and a half years stitching his videos,

1333
01:02:51.519 --> 01:02:55.239
so to see him model, oh yeah. My profile is

1334
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:58.960
literally all about his videos being stitched from his podcast.

1335
01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:00.920
So when I saw him on there, I was like,

1336
01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:03.519
I know all this stuff. It doesn't surprise me, it

1337
01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:05.320
doesn't shock me. But I think it was great how

1338
01:03:05.400 --> 01:03:08.559
Louis was able to draw out some again contradictions and

1339
01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:12.000
almost make it seem like it's performative, and I don't.

1340
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:14.880
I don't quite like it being described as that because

1341
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.000
I think that, you know, even if it was performative

1342
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:18.280
on some level, I do think that they mean what

1343
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:18.639
they say.

1344
01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:20.920
I do. I don't think it's all rage bait, and

1345
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:22.519
I don't think it's all just clickbait. I think they do.

1346
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:25.400
They do believe in what they're saying, because they try

1347
01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:28.039
to uphold that dynamic as much as possible. There was

1348
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:30.679
a part of me that, like, I understood that it

1349
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:33.159
was an awareness thing for people to start talking. For

1350
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:35.440
me personally, I felt like, if there are parents out

1351
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:37.199
there who have never really heard about any of this before.

1352
01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:39.480
I don't know where they you know, they're probably thinking.

1353
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:39.960
Where do I go now?

1354
01:03:40.639 --> 01:03:42.800
What do I do now in terms of research and

1355
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:45.280
what do I do with this information? Because it seems

1356
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:48.559
very surface level, because if you really get into it

1357
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:50.679
and explore what's going on, you can see how deep

1358
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:55.159
rooted it is. So I again, it's like, is it

1359
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:58.039
to have conversations with their children, if they've if they've

1360
01:03:58.039 --> 01:03:58.960
got teenage boys?

1361
01:03:59.280 --> 01:03:59.960
If so? Great?

1362
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:02.599
A variety of reasons of why I thought it was

1363
01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:05.719
good slash bad, but only because I just think it

1364
01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:08.360
was something that I already knew pretty much everything that

1365
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:11.039
was said. You know, I know the people that were interviewed,

1366
01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:14.000
I know what they stanned for. And there's plenty of

1367
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:16.119
unfortunatere's plenty of videos out there where some of the

1368
01:04:16.119 --> 01:04:17.559
things they say are just horrific.

1369
01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:18.480
Yeah.

1370
01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:21.000
So, yeah, a mixed view for me, if I'm.

1371
01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:24.119
Honest, It's such a difficult line to walk, right because

1372
01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:26.400
like to go back to the kind of like you know,

1373
01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:29.280
applauding men for speaking up or whatever. It's it is

1374
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.400
the bare minimum, You're right, Like, it's the bare minimum

1375
01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:35.400
that should be happening. It's not happening. And so part

1376
01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:38.480
of me feels like, why not encourage the men that

1377
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:41.840
do in hopes that other men are like, oh, this

1378
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:44.719
is what we should be doing. So I don't know,

1379
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:49.239
I think that acknowledging anyone speaking up man women or otherwise.

1380
01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:51.559
I just think only encourages more people. But I guess

1381
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:52.960
it's how you do it, Like you don't want to

1382
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:55.760
throw a party for them because they said they didn't

1383
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:57.239
say something negative about women.

1384
01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:59.559
I think doing it based on the fact that they

1385
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:02.400
have done the bare minimum. I think I have a

1386
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:04.599
problem with doing some patting somebody on the back for

1387
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:06.519
doing what they should do as a human being. But

1388
01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:09.719
I think what does need to be encouraged is for

1389
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:12.920
open conversations to have publicly, because when you said lex

1390
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:15.880
earlier that you know this is the time where it's

1391
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.000
just it's out there. Now there's so many more conversations

1392
01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:20.960
about it, but it's still conversations that are being had

1393
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:23.840
by women. There's not a million Lexes out there, but

1394
01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:28.840
there are ten million smudges out there having conversations all

1395
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.360
the time. How do we get to the point where

1396
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:34.760
it's not an embarrassment, there's no stigma around it, and

1397
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:37.480
they actually want to do it instead of being encouraged

1398
01:05:37.519 --> 01:05:40.480
by performative pats on the back and well done you

1399
01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:44.599
or for influencing purposes. How do we get to that point?

1400
01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:47.960
Lex Well again, unfortunately, I think it's a generational thing

1401
01:05:48.159 --> 01:05:51.559
where you know, the new children that come into all

1402
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:54.280
the teenage era, it starts with parents. I think it

1403
01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.719
starts with parents in the education system. You know we've

1404
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:58.960
got in the UK ante misogyny is soon going to

1405
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:01.880
be I think taught in schools. I'm doing my best

1406
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:03.679
to apply to as many schools as possible because I've

1407
01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:06.599
got a presentation ready to go, workshops ready made to

1408
01:06:06.679 --> 01:06:09.400
be able to do that. But it's it's so difficult

1409
01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:11.760
to you know, every school they see the email and

1410
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.000
it's and you know, if I'm honest with you, a

1411
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:16.000
lot of admin don't quite want to read that whole

1412
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:18.679
you know things, But sometimes it just doesn't get anywhere.

1413
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:21.199
So I'm finding that really difficult. I don't know whether

1414
01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:23.719
or not it hasn't been implemented yet as opposed to

1415
01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:26.280
just it's confirmed it will happen. So but I think

1416
01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:29.599
that it needs to start in the education system and parenting.

1417
01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:31.400
And so that's why I think back to the Lewis

1418
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:32.840
through thing. I do think it was helpful if it

1419
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:35.599
got parents who haven't seen it before aware, because if

1420
01:06:35.599 --> 01:06:38.480
they're a teenage boy, you know, it will open conversations

1421
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:40.239
with them to say, have you seen this?

1422
01:06:40.519 --> 01:06:41.960
And how much do you know about this?

1423
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:44.920
And now suddenly it's include remembers said earlier about including

1424
01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:47.559
your children in conversations out of curiosity and not a

1425
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:50.920
place of you know, sort of I'm asserting my authority

1426
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:51.199
on you.

1427
01:06:51.559 --> 01:06:52.480
That's how it needs to be.

1428
01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:54.199
And I think, unfortunately there are a lot of parents

1429
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:55.639
out of it that think this is, you know, all

1430
01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:58.280
gentle parenting styles and it doesn't have to be.

1431
01:06:59.119 --> 01:06:59.440
You don't.

1432
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.679
You don't have to fully gentle parent to be able

1433
01:07:02.760 --> 01:07:05.480
to be, you know, having conversations with your children at

1434
01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:09.920
times in a gentle parenting style. You can apply both here,

1435
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:12.079
and I think that for the sake of how you

1436
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:15.119
can have a communicative discussion with your children that is

1437
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:17.480
this important. But I think you kind of do anything

1438
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:19.639
you can to try and make sure that conversation exists,

1439
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:22.880
rather than maybe the ego or pride of just I

1440
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:25.840
need to remain in my stance of how I've raised

1441
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.599
you and never deviate from it. There needs to be

1442
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:30.079
some flexibility on that as well.

1443
01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:32.639
Wow, you know what I hate that just popped into

1444
01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:34.679
my head is that Kas and I live.

1445
01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:37.119
In the US and where they teach pro misogyny.

1446
01:07:37.400 --> 01:07:40.400
So when you mentioned the anti misogony they're gonna be

1447
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:42.239
teaching in school, my immediate thought was they will never

1448
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:44.280
happen there. It's so controversial, people would pull their kids

1449
01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:44.880
out of school.

1450
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:47.199
Just I hate that. That's my first thought. I was like, Oh,

1451
01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:48.480
that will never happen here right now.

1452
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:49.719
That's sad, I get it.

1453
01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:52.239
I mean, you know, without going into the politics so

1454
01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:57.760
much equals well, I know this is all political anyway, absolutely,

1455
01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:01.679
but in regards to who's in charge, you know, I

1456
01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:05.360
think enough set Yeah, And I don't laugh in a

1457
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:07.679
way of thinking it's funny. I just mean more it's

1458
01:08:07.880 --> 01:08:10.159
just how how are you ever gonna That was a

1459
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:11.840
huge step back for women.

1460
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:12.719
Huge huge.

1461
01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:15.440
That's what's so disheartening is like it felt like we

1462
01:08:15.559 --> 01:08:19.199
made such amazing progress over decades and decades and decades,

1463
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:22.079
and so much of it has been undone in not

1464
01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:24.640
a very long time that it's it's hard to have

1465
01:08:24.720 --> 01:08:26.880
any because you just think even after you know this

1466
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:30.520
administration has gone, hopefully soon, there's a whole lot of

1467
01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:33.319
people who were trained to be just like them and conditioned.

1468
01:08:33.439 --> 01:08:35.439
Thought when I was watching The Menisphere, I thought it

1469
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:37.439
was going to talk more about the whole kind of

1470
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.760
online pipeline of how they get like young boys from

1471
01:08:40.840 --> 01:08:44.560
gaming to the Joe Rogan's yeah or the rotates, And

1472
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:46.760
so I was disappointed in next That's what I wanted

1473
01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:48.760
to hear about, because that's what that's what I feel

1474
01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:50.920
like a lot of us don't know what goes on

1475
01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:54.239
behind the scenes there to train these boys to turn

1476
01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:55.840
into misogynistic men.

1477
01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:57.840
Yeah, and I think they were closer with that on

1478
01:08:57.920 --> 01:08:59.640
the Netflix show Adolescence.

1479
01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:01.800
Yes, oh yeah.

1480
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:06.520
I think that was probably more impactful, even though as

1481
01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:08.319
always there was men that was pushing back, of course,

1482
01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:10.960
but you know, that's that's never going to be avoided.

1483
01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:13.279
But I think that was probably you know, more impactful

1484
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:16.479
in terms of being able to just see what it

1485
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:19.520
was like to get to that stage for him. I

1486
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:21.399
would have liked to have seen a follow up where

1487
01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:23.800
it was from the victim's point of view two, because

1488
01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:25.479
because obviously what happens in a lot of these is

1489
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:29.079
that the perpetrator gets centered, and so there's there's also

1490
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:31.079
that to factor.

1491
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:31.319
In as well.

1492
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:33.560
We can all want different things done, you know, in

1493
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:35.000
different ways. And that's why I said to you, when

1494
01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:36.600
I do my lives, there are some people that say, oh,

1495
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:37.920
I don't like the way he's doing it, and it

1496
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:39.319
might be better if he did it this way, blah

1497
01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:42.000
blah blah. And there's no one size fits all for this.

1498
01:09:42.640 --> 01:09:45.319
But what's important is the conversations are being had and

1499
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:47.039
that that's the only way that we can raise that

1500
01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:49.560
awareness and hopefully make it more widespread.

1501
01:09:50.439 --> 01:09:52.560
A question I'd like to ask is what gives you

1502
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:55.199
hope when you look at the next generation.

1503
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:57.279
I should really be able to have something to station.

1504
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:59.159
Not necessarily if that's the way.

1505
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:03.560
Yeah, Sadly, I think I'm struggling with that. I like

1506
01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:04.279
to think that there.

1507
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:07.199
I like to think that there are more videos more.

1508
01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:09.720
I do think there's more conversations and videos that are

1509
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:12.560
spreading to show just how important and how big this

1510
01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.039
issue is. I think that if the government on our

1511
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:19.560
side are starting to implement something, then things are slowly changing.

1512
01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:22.319
I just don't think it's fast enough. I don't think

1513
01:10:22.319 --> 01:10:23.840
I'm going to see that much of a change in

1514
01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:26.520
my lifetime if I'm being honest, like I don't. I

1515
01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:29.079
would like to, but I think you're probably looking at

1516
01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:32.479
maybe two or three generations. This is all just complete

1517
01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:34.279
guest work. By the way, this is no esternate off

1518
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:36.279
of statistics or anything. It's just what I'm thinking. Like

1519
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:37.920
you know, I'm looking at the ways that I would

1520
01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:40.439
like to raise my two boys and what type of

1521
01:10:40.720 --> 01:10:42.920
you know, surroundings they will have with their friends, and

1522
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.319
whether or not other families are aligning with that too,

1523
01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:48.239
And you know how much is changing. I still think

1524
01:10:48.279 --> 01:10:50.119
we've got a long way to go, a very long

1525
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:52.399
way to go. Yeah, And you know, especially with what's

1526
01:10:52.399 --> 01:10:56.199
happening in America, you know, nothing's going to improve until

1527
01:10:56.279 --> 01:10:58.279
that's over, and then you never know, how like you said,

1528
01:10:58.319 --> 01:11:00.960
the people that are then being trained from that to

1529
01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:02.520
continue however, that.

1530
01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:03.199
Looks as well.

1531
01:11:03.319 --> 01:11:06.239
So yeah, I would like to see more men taking

1532
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:08.239
it more seriously. And I think that they think that

1533
01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:12.239
trying to take it seriously looks like being this heroic individual.

1534
01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:14.600
And I think that's the bit that again men need

1535
01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:17.119
to try and realize, is it doesn't take long to

1536
01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:20.359
read some information about statistics and numbers of what is

1537
01:11:20.439 --> 01:11:23.680
happening out there. You know, there's a couple of obvious websites.

1538
01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.079
I think it's like, you know, un for women ons

1539
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.119
refuge that there's there's so many that just pretty much

1540
01:11:29.159 --> 01:11:30.680
give you the numbers, but a lot of men are

1541
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:32.520
very much I know, I'm not doing any of those things.

1542
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:34.720
Therefore I'm not part of the problem. Yeah, and you

1543
01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:36.880
know if you're silent, and you know, was it silence

1544
01:11:36.960 --> 01:11:41.319
is violence or something? Yeah, it's being complicit in areas.

1545
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:44.800
And it's also brushing off the behaviors on the rape

1546
01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:46.880
pyramid at the bottom. You know, the cat calling, the

1547
01:11:46.920 --> 01:11:49.880
locker room talks, the rape jokes, all of these things

1548
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:51.800
that men just kind of go, oh, it's no big deal,

1549
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:53.720
and it's like it actually is a big deal. And

1550
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:55.640
you know, because you're not taking it seriously, you think

1551
01:11:55.640 --> 01:11:57.640
it's okay, but it just upholds the system even more.

1552
01:11:58.039 --> 01:12:00.680
It's like, not everybody that drinks because as an alcoholic,

1553
01:12:01.399 --> 01:12:05.239
but there are people that are alcoholics, you know, just

1554
01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:06.640
exhausting sometimes it.

1555
01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:09.720
Is in you know, going back to the way things

1556
01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:12.239
are over here. I think I had a guy say

1557
01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:14.039
to me once like, well, Julie, what rights have you

1558
01:12:14.119 --> 01:12:17.079
lost You haven't lost any right rates like immediately defensive

1559
01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:19.800
as I'm trying to say, like, no, here's what's happening

1560
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:21.640
in other states, here's what's going on with women.

1561
01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:24.079
Why do so many men choose to.

1562
01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:28.319
Get defensive instead of reflective when we're talking about our experiences.

1563
01:12:27.920 --> 01:12:30.279
Because they look at it from a rights perspective and

1564
01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:32.800
think that the legal system is the only way in

1565
01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:35.720
which women face oppression. They don't look at the scietal

1566
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:38.680
expectations and you know, the narratives that are pushed on

1567
01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:41.000
to women through gender roles. They don't look at the

1568
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:43.800
ways that women are treated in workplace environments. They don't

1569
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:45.960
look at things like pink tax, they don't look at

1570
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:49.279
medical misogyny. So they think that if a law is

1571
01:12:49.600 --> 01:12:51.520
not there to oppress women, it can't be done through

1572
01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:57.479
any other system. Yeah, so they don't consider that. You know,

1573
01:12:57.560 --> 01:12:59.520
I think the most obvious one, which I couldn't believe

1574
01:12:59.520 --> 01:13:01.720
when I found was I think it was either last

1575
01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:04.119
year or the year before where women's period pads was

1576
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:05.199
tested with actual blood.

1577
01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:08.479
Yeah, yeah, it's very recent that they just started doing it.

1578
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:10.399
They were using very water, Yeah, yep.

1579
01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:12.920
Same on adverts. They wanted to use water on adverts

1580
01:13:12.960 --> 01:13:16.720
because it might be that not PG or something, you know. Yeah,

1581
01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:19.359
But then on top of that, there's still chemicals like

1582
01:13:19.560 --> 01:13:21.279
arsenic in tampons.

1583
01:13:22.439 --> 01:13:22.640
Yeah.

1584
01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:25.239
So, and it's it's like we're in twenty twenty six

1585
01:13:25.359 --> 01:13:27.159
and these things still haven't been changed, but they're just

1586
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:30.920
every day you know, healthcare products for the majority of women.

1587
01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:34.279
Men don't have to worry about that, you know, right.

1588
01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:38.640
And it feels it feels archaic when you stay say

1589
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:41.039
things like that. But how is it in this day

1590
01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:42.880
and age, in twenty twenty six, when we're almost in

1591
01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:48.720
flying fucking cars, that we can't test tampons on real blood?

1592
01:13:48.800 --> 01:13:50.359
What the fuck? Why can't we?

1593
01:13:50.560 --> 01:13:50.680
You know?

1594
01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:53.720
Is it gender pain gap as well, not the pay gap,

1595
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:54.439
the pain.

1596
01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:55.439
Yeah yeah yeah.

1597
01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:57.159
And then when you look at the intersections of that

1598
01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:59.520
that you know is worse than for black and brown women,

1599
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:02.560
we're talking about pain, you know. So I think I

1600
01:14:02.600 --> 01:14:04.479
think black and brown women are four times more likely

1601
01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:07.439
to die during childbirth if I'm not mistaken one of them,

1602
01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:12.079
their pain often gets dismissed. For me, when I was

1603
01:14:12.199 --> 01:14:15.199
understanding misogyny, when into sectionality came my way, I was

1604
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:17.159
like whoa, I'm just trying to get to grips of

1605
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:20.960
misogyny first, what's going on? But then I realized it's.

1606
01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:23.880
Well I had to though, right.

1607
01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.359
That was the issue was that when I was when

1608
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:28.840
I was talking about misogyny and I was hearing about

1609
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:32.600
experiences from other demographics and all muginized communities, I was like, oh, okay,

1610
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:36.199
this goes even deeper. Yeah, and so the first door

1611
01:14:36.199 --> 01:14:38.720
had pretty much been opened to me, not all the

1612
01:14:38.760 --> 01:14:40.039
other hundreds.

1613
01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:41.039
Yeah.

1614
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:45.199
Yeah, So much of what I hear you saying is that,

1615
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:47.840
like the kind of solution, if you will to this

1616
01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:53.199
ultimately is just clear, honest conversations about the source of

1617
01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:54.439
the issue and not the symptom.

1618
01:14:54.880 --> 01:14:57.119
When is it work? I know it's always worth.

1619
01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:59.600
Having the hard conversation, but sometimes you just feel like

1620
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:03.000
you're begging your head against a wall. So when is

1621
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:05.279
it worth having a conversation? And one is the answer

1622
01:15:05.359 --> 01:15:06.119
to just walk away?

1623
01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:08.840
I think for me, I've started to identify that when

1624
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:12.199
some people are there to just debate or they're to troll.

1625
01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:14.920
In my head, I'm like, I know where this is going,

1626
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:18.439
and I preserve energy and I'll give I'll give the

1627
01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:20.560
same energy back which for me doesn't take a lot

1628
01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:22.239
then because I know what I'm doing now and what

1629
01:15:22.359 --> 01:15:24.560
my purpose is. But they'll hit a point where I'm

1630
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.960
slightly stepping into a role of maybe the sarcasm comes

1631
01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:29.960
out a little bit because in my head I'm just like, well,

1632
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:31.239
if you're not going to take this seriously, I'm not

1633
01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:33.680
going to, you know, treat you seriously on the topic

1634
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.319
and conversation because you're not here a purpose. But then

1635
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:38.520
there are I think you can always tell when someone

1636
01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:41.399
is curious, so like, oh, I don't disagree, but I

1637
01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:42.359
also don't understand.

1638
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:43.640
Can you explain? Boom?

1639
01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:47.079
Absolutely, thank you for being respectful. If you're respecting the platform,

1640
01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:50.079
you can respect the platform while disagreeing. Yeah, there's no

1641
01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:50.840
two ways about it.

1642
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:53.800
You know, nothing on my Life says men are horrible.

1643
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:54.520
I hate men.

1644
01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:57.000
Ring on my Life says that, Well, men come up

1645
01:15:57.039 --> 01:15:58.560
and say that, you know, all men At a moment

1646
01:15:58.600 --> 01:16:00.359
they go, oh, you're saying all men are rape And

1647
01:16:00.399 --> 01:16:03.239
I'm like, WHOA, I don't know where.

1648
01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:04.680
You read that word. That's not there.

1649
01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:07.520
Ye've just you've done a one plus one equals ten,

1650
01:16:07.600 --> 01:16:11.760
and so you can see the triggers. You can see

1651
01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:13.600
the triggers that come in and you're just thinking, where's

1652
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:16.039
that come from? Like, arguably I sort of tap into

1653
01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:19.319
therapy though, and I'm like, let's unpack that, because something's

1654
01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:21.560
going on there, you know. So to make that clear,

1655
01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:24.680
a lot of people also try to blame mental health

1656
01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:26.760
on that, and it's it's so important to acknowledge that

1657
01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:29.560
misogyny is not a mental health issue. It's a sociological issue.

1658
01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:32.319
So when there are a lot of men and sometimes

1659
01:16:32.399 --> 01:16:34.640
women who will say, these men need to go to therapy,

1660
01:16:35.119 --> 01:16:37.359
and I'm like, we need to acknowledge that that will

1661
01:16:37.399 --> 01:16:40.840
not solve misogyny. You know, going to a therapist, you

1662
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:44.479
will not. That's not about reducing your misogyny. That's not

1663
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:47.840
what therapy is for. It's a totally different issue. And

1664
01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:49.399
so whilst I think a lot of men do need

1665
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:52.800
to go to therapy for other things, I do think

1666
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:55.159
we have to separate the two otherwise we cross over

1667
01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:57.880
and for me, that's not where it will solve for

1668
01:16:58.159 --> 01:16:59.880
or you know, change the mindsets of things.

1669
01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:02.520
Where do you see yourself and what you're doing on

1670
01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:04.960
your platform, which is you know you're doing the work

1671
01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:09.239
of the Lord. Of course, where do you see yourself,

1672
01:17:09.319 --> 01:17:12.720
what do you see your journey becoming or what do

1673
01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:13.319
you want to do.

1674
01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:16.439
I'd love to be going into schools. I've worked in

1675
01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:19.079
schools for about ten to fifteen years, a variety of

1676
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:21.079
you know, secondary, primary, you know. I used to work

1677
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:23.720
at sort of children's camps, you know, during the half term,

1678
01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:24.680
the summer of the easter.

1679
01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:26.880
So I've always you know, worked with children.

1680
01:17:27.479 --> 01:17:29.359
I haven't done that for about five years due to

1681
01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:32.479
you know, family dynamics and changes in jobs and stuff.

1682
01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:34.840
So I want to educate teenagers on that. Not long

1683
01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:35.560
ago I had an.

1684
01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:38.239
Interview with the Deputy Prime Minister in the UK, you know,

1685
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:40.199
I asked the women in the community, what questions do

1686
01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:40.840
you want to ask?

1687
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:42.680
And I got that put out as well.

1688
01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:45.960
Wow. So I'd like to be Yeah, I'd like to

1689
01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:48.239
be out there more because I think whils I'm sitting

1690
01:17:48.279 --> 01:17:50.960
behind a screen. That's very easy to do, as in

1691
01:17:51.079 --> 01:17:52.920
you know, it's just you know, turn it on, do

1692
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:54.840
the live, turn it off. That is pretty much what

1693
01:17:54.880 --> 01:17:57.239
it's like. Because I don't I don't experience the misogyny.

1694
01:17:57.840 --> 01:17:59.560
So for me, when men are saying these things, I

1695
01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:01.520
recognis that actually I can come away from it and

1696
01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:04.199
just think all right, onto the next tomorrow. But actually

1697
01:18:04.199 --> 01:18:05.840
there's a lot of women that have heard the misogyny

1698
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:09.439
and gone, wow, that was heavy. So I again acknowledge

1699
01:18:09.439 --> 01:18:11.960
the privilege in that situation, but when it comes to

1700
01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:14.560
you know, out in the world. I've just finished the

1701
01:18:14.600 --> 01:18:17.159
first series of the podcast, which has got twelve episodes

1702
01:18:17.159 --> 01:18:19.479
on it, but I would like to branch into doing

1703
01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:23.159
series on the podcast. So for example, like I'd like

1704
01:18:23.199 --> 01:18:26.479
to do a series on racism, a series on DV

1705
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:29.359
a series on mental health, because I think it'd be

1706
01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:32.119
nice to kind of have a focus on, you know,

1707
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:34.359
whether it was with six different individuals talking about their

1708
01:18:34.399 --> 01:18:36.520
experiences of what it might be to raise more awareness.

1709
01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:39.680
So I've got things in mind, but at times it

1710
01:18:39.720 --> 01:18:41.399
almost feels a bit icky to sort of say I'd

1711
01:18:41.439 --> 01:18:44.680
like to have a career in unpacking men's misogyny.

1712
01:18:45.279 --> 01:18:47.600
You know, something about that just doesn't feel right.

1713
01:18:47.680 --> 01:18:51.600
But there's plenty of misogynists with careers, so why can't

1714
01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:53.760
you turn the tables and enough?

1715
01:18:56.199 --> 01:18:58.279
So yeah, going into schools I think would be the priority,

1716
01:18:58.399 --> 01:19:00.479
but I just recognize how difficult they as well.

1717
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:04.399
Yeah, well, you know, citizen's out there, you've got children

1718
01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:08.359
school age. Start writing letters to your schools and asking

1719
01:19:08.479 --> 01:19:10.800
for these things to be taught in your schools. Let's

1720
01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:13.159
start the ball rolling chambell and start speaking to the

1721
01:19:13.239 --> 01:19:16.039
schools and telling them that's what you want for your children.

1722
01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:19.279
Yeah, that goes for the us too, all right, everybody.

1723
01:19:20.800 --> 01:19:23.079
Honestly, I could talk forever.

1724
01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:25.600
So good.

1725
01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:28.920
My brain is like spinning in a good way in really,

1726
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:33.880
and Rachel, I know right though, I'm still on that

1727
01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:35.720
childhood's gone.

1728
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:38.119
When I go into clothing stores, now, that's all I

1729
01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:39.720
see when I go to the children's sections.

1730
01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:42.359
I blew my mind.

1731
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:44.279
So me too, because I was thinking you were going

1732
01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:48.079
to go in the direction of oh, like pink, blue blue,

1733
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:49.960
you know. Then when you said the predator prey thing,

1734
01:19:50.199 --> 01:19:53.199
Oh my god, I'd have blown with that one. Yes,

1735
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.159
it's so apparent now that you've said it, like glass shattered.

1736
01:19:56.600 --> 01:19:59.079
Like it's ironic, isn't it? Because I think it was

1737
01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:01.000
back when I think it was King Louis who was in.

1738
01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:03.920
When King Louis was there, he was pink was actually

1739
01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:04.520
a boy's color.

1740
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:08.039
Yeah, it was originally a male color, it was, yeah, yeah,

1741
01:20:09.399 --> 01:20:11.279
and so were skirts and tights.

1742
01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:14.520
Do we do we know that way back, women couldn't

1743
01:20:14.520 --> 01:20:16.279
perform on stage, so all the men were wearing all

1744
01:20:16.319 --> 01:20:18.960
the women's clothing all the time and everything like, come on,

1745
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:20.079
that was all the way back.

1746
01:20:20.359 --> 01:20:22.199
I mean things like it wasn't it was. It was

1747
01:20:22.359 --> 01:20:25.720
nineteen seventy something, late seventies maybe early eighties where women

1748
01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:28.600
weren't allowed to have a bank account or credit card. Yeah,

1749
01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:34.079
without a signature from their husband or father. It feels

1750
01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:35.920
like it should be three hundred years ago.

1751
01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:38.760
It's not well in here in the States, Smudge, that's

1752
01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:40.720
exactly where they want to go back to. But that's

1753
01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:45.039
those are those are current conversations of like in the household,

1754
01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:48.800
the man should be the other one who votes, and

1755
01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:51.640
he votes for the house like so there's yeah, they're

1756
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:54.359
looking to actually go back there and there and.

1757
01:20:54.640 --> 01:20:57.319
Why conversations like this need to continue to happen and

1758
01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:00.840
we need to get louder. Lex It's been an it's

1759
01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:03.560
been mind blowing, eye opening, so good.

1760
01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:06.720
Though heavy conversations is but it's it's part of it,

1761
01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:08.840
right is the more the more awareness and more recognition.

1762
01:21:09.119 --> 01:21:12.000
It's so necessary if people can just see those even

1763
01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:14.479
little things differently, like the clothing and the colors. And

1764
01:21:14.520 --> 01:21:16.960
the and the you know, and the friend zone thing

1765
01:21:17.039 --> 01:21:20.359
like that blew my MinC. Even when someone says just guy, like,

1766
01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:23.199
oh you've been friend zoned somehow, that's still the woman's fault,

1767
01:21:23.359 --> 01:21:28.560
you know, It's like, how dare she not accept your advances? Well,

1768
01:21:28.600 --> 01:21:30.039
my film is going to be thrilled that I'll be

1769
01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:31.920
calling them out on even more stuff. Lex So, thank you,

1770
01:21:33.840 --> 01:21:35.880
thank you so much. Like you take the time to

1771
01:21:35.920 --> 01:21:37.439
speak with us. We really appreciate it.

1772
01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:41.720
Yes, we will add all of your socials onto our

1773
01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:44.159
show notes and tell people where they can find you,

1774
01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:45.920
where they can take part, where they can see you,

1775
01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:49.520
how they can support you lives and yeah, and continue

1776
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:52.359
the conversation because that's what we need to do. Thank

1777
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:53.000
you so much.

1778
01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:55.840
Yeah, thanks for having me on Lovely to meet you all.

1779
01:21:56.359 --> 01:21:56.680
You too.

1780
01:21:57.079 --> 01:22:01.960
Pleasure by Oh my god, that was just my god.

1781
01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:04.199
I'm just I'm so glad that he's in the space

1782
01:22:04.279 --> 01:22:06.039
doing this. I'm just really glad I'm.

1783
01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:08.640
Winding me to promote him. And as some of my

1784
01:22:08.880 --> 01:22:10.920
male friends therapists.

1785
01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:13.880
I think, yeah, right, God, please anyone, like we said

1786
01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:16.000
on the episode, anyone is listening, like bring him into

1787
01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:18.760
your schools and like any place you can hear him

1788
01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:20.760
speak and check out his TikTok and all the social

1789
01:22:20.840 --> 01:22:24.720
media things that we'll have in the show notes. Incredible.

1790
01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:26.840
He just said he's got an incredible way about him

1791
01:22:27.039 --> 01:22:31.239
of dismantling it in a way that it's clearly effective.

1792
01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:35.520
So thank you Lex so much, so much spending some

1793
01:22:35.640 --> 01:22:36.279
time with us.

1794
01:22:36.680 --> 01:22:40.600
Keep the conversation going. Hell yeah we are, and thanks

1795
01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:43.840
again for Peaches and he's peaching it real segment. What

1796
01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:49.319
a great segment that was today as well, Peaching. We

1797
01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:53.520
have been blessed today with some fucking amazing conversations, haven't.

1798
01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:56.640
We, Yes, with a couple of good men who are

1799
01:22:56.760 --> 01:22:59.880
doing great work. So thank you both Lex and Peaching.

1800
01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:01.640
Yes, thank you so nice.

1801
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:03.880
Clit uSens for listening to another episode of Quincast. We

1802
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:06.399
hope you got a lot out of this and are

1803
01:23:06.479 --> 01:23:09.239
ready to go continue to fight the good fight. We'll

1804
01:23:09.279 --> 01:23:11.960
be back again with another great episode. But in the meantime,

1805
01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:15.520
please comment, share all the things, email us your topic

1806
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:18.760
ideas Quinncast podcast at gmail dot com. We'd love to

1807
01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:22.319
hear from you and peach it real. This has ben Casa,

1808
01:23:22.520 --> 01:23:23.720
your voice matters.

1809
01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:26.520
This has been Jewles. Go put those lips to good use, and.

1810
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:28.920
This has been smuch. Keep one king,